1: So what is the final diagnosis of this plant...?? 2: if its not s. surattensis ... should the subject line be changed so that whoever takes care of this thread in indiatreepix website would have an easy time? thanks usha di ===========
On Dec 8, 7:54 pm, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes Dinesh ji > > -- > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > > Many many thanks, Gurcharan ji for resolving this ID. > > > Your revised note would read: > > "We should now wait for some one uploading leaves with 6-9 pairs of > > leaflets, smaller leaflets shorter than 3.5 cm, shorter leaf (*less than 15 > > cm long*) and shorter pod (7-10 cm long) the true *Senna surattensis*." > > > Regards. > > Dinesh > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Dinesh ji please read leaves shorter than 15 cm in S. surattensis > > >> -- > >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > >> Retired Associate Professor > >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > >>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>> Yes Dinesh both your plant, and uploaded by me today, and others as > >>> Senna surattensis should all belong to Senna sulfurea. Occurrence of gland > >>> in third pair is no issue as both Revised Handbook of Ceylone and Flora of > >>> Pakistan mention glands between lower 2-4 pairs of leaflets. I got > >>> slightly > >>> confused with smaller size of leaflets in your cropped image but those in > >>> your original upload match mine. > > >>> We should now wait for some one uploading leaves with 6-9 pairs of > >>> leaflets, smaller leaflets shorter than 3.5 cm, shorter leaf (less than 10 > >>> cm long) and shorter pod (7-10 cm long) the true Senna surattensis. > > >>> -- > >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > >>> Retired Associate Professor > >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > >>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > >>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Dinesh Valke > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>>> Gurcharan ji, > > >>>> Your analysis prompted me to go through the Senna PDF (Flora of China) > >>>>http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/china/PDF/PDF10/Senna.pdf... the plant > >>>> in my upload is quite close to *Senna sulfurea* (Collad.) H.S.Irwin & > >>>> Barneby (syn. *Cassia glauca* Lam.) > > >>>> Seeking clarification regarding these two points: > >>>> 1) the stipules in my plant ... can they be considered as linear ? > >>>> 2) the clavate glands on rachis between each of lowest 3 pairs of > >>>> leaflets ... in description, put as 2 ... can it be considered as > >>>> possible > >>>> variation ? > > >>>> Have re-attached the relevant image files for ready reference. > > >>>> If the considerations are positive, then my plant must be *Senna > >>>> sulfurea* (Collad.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby ... though aware that *Cassia > >>>> glauca* Lam. is treated differently by the top organizations. > > >>>> Your thoughts. > > >>>> Regards. > >>>> Dinesh > > >>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Gurcharan Singh > >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>>>> Dinesh ji > >>>>> Perhaps the whole situation has to be looked carefully. Flora of China > >>>>> seems to be very confident about number of leaflets 4-6 pairs (usually 5 > >>>>> pairs) and C. glauca as synonym of S. sulphurea., whereas those unaware > >>>>> of > >>>>> S. sulphurea (Fl Pakistan, Hortus Third) who simply treat C. glauca as > >>>>> ynonym of S. surattensis directly mention 4-10 pairs of leaflets in the > >>>>> species. The Plant List follows Flora of Cgina whereas GRIN treats S. > >>>>> sulfurea a S. surattensis subsp. sulfurea (DC. ex Collad.) Randell (a > >>>>> 1989 > >>>>> publication whereas Irwin & Barneby combination as Senna sulfurea is > >>>>> 1982). > >>>>> It seems that Cassia glauca Lamk. described in Flora of British India > >>>>> (although leaflet number is not mentioned) should be Senna sulfurea > >>>>> wherea > >>>>> Cassia glauca var. suffruticosa Koenig. (C. suffruticosa Wall. Cassia > >>>>> speciosa Roxb; with 16-18 smaller leaflets) is true Senna surattensis. > >>>>> Perhaps some one has to find this true Senna surattensis with (6-9 > >>>>> pairs of leaflets; leaflets 2.5-5 cm, obtuse at tip) as against we > >>>>> usually > >>>>> find S. sulfurea (C. glauca) with 4-6 pairs of larger leaflets (4 to 10 > >>>>> cm > >>>>> long), which most of us are finding and uploading. > > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > >>>>> Retired Associate Professor > >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > >>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > >>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Dinesh Valke > >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>>>>> Many thanks Gurcharan ji for validating this ID. > >>>>>> Had earlier (long back) labelled it as *Cassia glauca* > > >>>>>> The single photo of Jun 21, 2007 is one of the same plants that was > >>>>>> photographed after two years on Aug 22, 2009. > >>>>>> 5 pairs of leaflets, their sizes uniformly increasing as they near > >>>>>> the tip of the stalk. > >>>>>> The size of the leaflets, relatively has reduced, with the plant > >>>>>> maturing. > >>>>>> In the matured plant, the largest leaflet measures about 20 - 25 mm, > >>>>>> the entire leaf about 10 - 12 cm. > >>>>>> The seedpod measures about 12 - 15 cm long X 10 - 12 mm wide, > >>>>>> comprising about 18 - 20 seeds. > > >>>>>> Posting more attachments (cropped versions of already attached > >>>>>> photos); perhaps may help in getting to the ID. > > >>>>>> Regards. > >>>>>> Dinesh > > >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Gurcharan Singh > >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>>>>>> I wonder whether this should be Senna sulfurea (4-6 pairs of > >>>>>>> leaflets; leaves 15-30 cm long; stalk of fruit 10-20 mm long) or Senna > >>>>>>> surattensis (leaflets 6-9 pairs; leaves 10-15 cm long; stalk of fruit > >>>>>>> 6-7 > >>>>>>> mm long). I wonder if we really have true Senna surattensis in India. > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>>> would be happy if some one uploads one. > > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor > >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > >>>>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] > >>>>>>> > wrote: > > >>>>>>>> *Senna surattensis * (Burm.f.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby > > >>>>>>>> - *SEN-nuh* -- Latin form of Arabic word for a thorny bush > >>>>>>>> *sur-rat-EN-sis* -- of or from Surat (Gujarat, India) > > >>>>>>>> [image: Senna > >>>>>>>> surattensis]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > >>>>>>>> Jun 21, 2007 ... near Yeoor Hills, Thane, Maharashtra > > >>>>>>>> *commonly known as*: glaucous cassia, golden senna, scrambled egg > >>>>>>>> tree, Singapore shower, smooth senna, sulphur-flowered senna, > >>>>>>>> sunshine > >>>>>>>> tree, Surat senna • *Gujarati*: કાસીદ kasid • *Kannada*: ಬೆಟ್ಟದವರೆ > >>>>>>>> bettadavare • *Marathi*: मोठा तरवड motha tarvad • *Tamil*: > >>>>>>>> குண்டுப்பூக்கொன்றை kuntu-p-pu-k-konrai, மஞ்சட்கொன்றை mancat-konrai, > >>>>>>>> வெள்ளைத்தகரை vellai-t-takarai, வெள்ளாவிரை vel-l-avirai, வெண்டகரை > >>>>>>>> ventakarai > >>>>>>>> • *Telugu*: మెట్ట తంగేడు metta tangedu > > >>>>>>>> *Native to*: India, Sri Lanka > > >>>>>>>> *more views*: > > >>>>>>>> - Aug 22, 2009 ... near Yeoor Hills, Thane, Maharashtra > >>>>>>>> [image: Sulphur-flowered > >>>>>>>> Senna]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > >>>>>>>> [image: > >>>>>>>> Glaucous > >>>>>>>> Cassia]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > >>>>>>>> [image: > >>>>>>>> Surat > >>>>>>>> Senna]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > >>>>>>>> [image: > >>>>>>>> Metta Tangedu (Telugu: మెట్ట > >>>>>>>> తంగేడు)]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > >>>>>>>> [image: > >>>>>>>> Golden > >>>>>>>> Senna]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > >>>>>>>> [image: > >>>>>>>> Bettadavare (Kannada: > >>>>>>>> ಬೆಟ್ಟದವರೆ)]<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdi...> > > >>>>>>>> Regards. > >>>>>>>> Dinesh
