Well, apart from being in the repositories like thousands of packages and possibly hundreds of seldom used libraries, and taking out the three or four *desktop *applications that are out there, no, I don't see much use.
You are talking as if Mono is the foundation of the Linux desktop (it is not), when there has been a lot of controversy in the Linux community about its inclusion and support. Not everyone agrees and that is OK. I totally support and welcome its inclusion and use, but I just do not see much excitement about it in the development community. I would say Java is much more used even for desktop applications, although different domain (i.e. not end user apps, more enterprise oriented and based in Eclipse RCP most of the time). In an enterprise environment, it is non existent or anecdotal at most, at least from where I look, and yes, this might be a bit different in the other side of the pond. But again, I would love to be proven wrong with real life examples. I emphasize the enterprise aspect since that is where Java reigns and where the comparison makes more sense in my opinion, if at all. Java has lost the consumer space, and that is fine, too. Microsoft is targeting more and more the enterprise world, and they are being quite successful, but Mono although with a compelling story (hey, you can run your code in a non crappy server OS) hasn't been so widespread in use. Again, my experience, does not have to match yours. Congratulations on living in non-patent Europe. I am a EU citizen and left two years ago, and so far I have not missed the patent-less environment in the U.S. Quite the contrary in fact. -- Juan Marín Otero Ingeniero de Montes Consultor SIG -------Visita mis blog en--------------------- http://programacionsig.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------- http://guachintoneando.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------- On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Casper Bang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > At least that has been my experience, so I'm sorry, I can't take your > > disclaimer as a fact. > > Make up any reality that floats your boat buddy. You have got to > wonder though, if nobody uses it then why continues to included it in > the default sparse Ubuntu image? > > http://www.osnews.com/story/21761/Ubuntu_Sees_No_Reason_To_Remove_Mono_from_Default_Install > > MonoDeveloper 2.0 has integrated debugger btw. I think you and many > are making the mistake of seeing Mono as just a lagging clone, when > really it is more than capable of standing on its own. For instance, > Mono had evaluation API (dynamic compilation) before C# 4.0 announced > it. > > It's a theoretical possibility that Microsoft will one day have a fit, > like any other large American corporation where legislation and law- > suits are used as a ridiculous means to an end. But that could only > involve the non-ECMA stuff and personally I don't care since I live in > Europe where you can't patent software anyway. > > /Casper > > On 2 Jul., 14:42, Juan Marín Otero <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have been "forced" to develop in .NET for a while (work requirements, > not > > by choice), started with Java several years ago. > > > > C# is a very nice programming language. Given all the discussions about > > language features lately, you could conclude it is the holy grail of > > enterprise development. Well, guess what, it is not. As nice as > properties, > > delegates and such are, when it comes down to deploying a working > > application on the server side, you are still stuck with Windows. And we > all > > know what happens to most Windows servers every once in a while, they > need > > to be rebooted, which is fine for most applications, but not for others. > I > > have not seen ANY enterprise (server side) deployments with Mono on > Linux. > > They must be out there somewhere, but compared to the number of > deployments > > with JEE technology, well.... > > > > The tooling in VS.NET seems great at first. But as previously mentioned > by > > another poster, there are lacking tools. The last project I did with .NET > > required some OR mapping, I used NHibernate with Spring.NET, so yeah, > they > > take the good ideas from the Java world and port them, which is nice, but > > you don't get as much documentation and community support, and there is > no > > integration with their IDE. Most .NET "average" developers don't even > know > > what you're talking about (different problem, but made worse by the VB > > culture of "drag, drop, F5, you're done"). > > > > I have tried Mono, since before version 1.0, and come back to take a peek > > from time to time. It is a very interesting project and I appreciate what > > that team is doing, it is an impressive technological challenge and they > > bring quite a bit of innovation to the platform themselves, just don't > > expect MS to take any of that. But in the end they are playing catch up, > > trying to follow a moving target. The tools are horrible still, no > > consistent debugger integrated in MonoDevelop by default last time I > looked. > > That in itself is a deal breaker for me (command line is nice for a pet > > project or to take a look, but I can't use it by itself for real life > > projects). > > > > If they had designed the platform freely and not try to mimic MS APIs > (which > > they still can't do), maybe it would have been more interesting. As I > said, > > C# is nice, but in the end some syntactic sugar doesn't get the job done > by > > itself. > > > > My 2c. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Casper Bang <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On 2 Jul., 13:48, Steven Herod <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > But I do have an issue with Mono, deep down inside I think it's the > > > > kind of thing MS lets run because it lets them pay lip service to > > > > 'cross platform'. > > > > > Who cares what Microsoft says anyway, the real interesting thing is > > > what their engineers do - that's what we should pay attention to > > > instead of focusing on politics/religion. > > > > > > C#/.Net on Linux seems to be the worst of all possible worlds, but > > > > that's just my personal opinion. > > > > > Funny, I see it as the best of all possible worlds. Some sleek > > > technology we'll never get in Java without the lock-in of Visual > > > Studio and Windows. > > > > > Alexander: You are likely to find many people turned off by Mono for a > > > great many reasons but the ones that matter. The speed and ingenuity > > > of that community is mind-boggling, and although Microsoft tried, > > > Miguel could not be bought. You gotta wonder, if anyone else than > > > Microsoft were behing the Ecma spec, we would probably have had C# on > > > the JVM by now. > > > > > *Disclaimer, uses Mono constantly through Gnome-Do etc. like the rest > > > of the pragmatic Linux crowd > > > > > > *Disclaimer, never used Mono, > > > > > > On Jul 2, 4:50 pm, Alexander Egger <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I developed in Java for many years. I changed my Job a year ago and > > > > > since then I use C#/.Net at work. > > > > > > > As you said the language is not an issue. C# has some syntactic > sugar > > > > > like properties, events, closures and (to some degree) LINQ which > can > > > > > be nice but apart from that the differences are minor. As a Java > > > > > developer it helps to look at what methods the compiler creates for > > > > > example for properties to feel very much at home. > > > > > > > What I still struggle with is the tools. We use Visual Studio which > is > > > > > sure great for smaller GUI projects but can hardly manage the 100+ > > > > > projects for our sever application. Refactoring is there but not > > > > > nearly as good as in Netbeans/Eclipse. There is no build in support > > > > > for OR mappers. The support for unit test is there but could really > be > > > > > better. So to get to a level of coding experience like in > > > > > Eclipse/Netbeans you have to install 3rd party plugins (Resharper > from > > > > > the makers of IntelliJ is worth its money). > > > > > > > I did some experiments with Mono and MonoDevelop which are really > not > > > > > bad but still have a long way to go to catch up with what you are > used > > > > > to as a Java Developer. > > > > > > > So my summary after one year of C# is: C# is good and even better > than > > > > > Java when it comes to GUI development *on Windows!*. On the server > > > > > side C#/.Net can be a pain because it lacks a lot of infrastructure > > > > > (application servers) you are just used to as a Java programmer. > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, ad<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm considering a new job which will primarily involve c# and > mono, > > > > > > neither of which I have any experience at all with. From what > I've > > > > > > gathered, most programmers seem to like c#, and it seems to be an > > > easy > > > > > > transition from java. I've heard some legal concerns about mono, > but > > > > > > it sure seems to be more and more used in linux. Any feedback > from > > > > > > java guys that have used c# and/or mono, or just have an opinion > on > > > it > > > > > > is appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Dr. Alexander Egger > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > UPPER Network GmbH > > > > > > > A-8141 Unterpremstätten, Seering 7/2 > > > > > Tel: +43-316 2299 125, Fax: +43-316 231123-8219 > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > -- > > > > > This email message is intended only for the named recipient. The > > > > > information transmitted may be confidential or privileged. If you > are > > > > > not the intended recipient, any form of disclosure, reproduction, > > > > > distribution or any action taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. > If > > > > > you received this email message in error, please contact the sender > > > > > immediately and delete it from your system > > > > -- > > Juan Marín Otero > > Ingeniero de Montes > > Consultor SIG > > > > -------Visita mis blog en--------------------- > http://programacionsig.blogspot.com > > --------------------------------------------------- > http://guachintoneando.blogspot.com > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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