> It's a theoretical possibility that Microsoft will one day have a fit, > like any other large American corporation where legislation and law- > suits are used as a ridiculous means to an end. But that could only > involve the non-ECMA stuff and personally I don't care since I live in > Europe where you can't patent software anyway.
True, but legislation and lawsuits seems to be just as much a ridiculous means to an end in Europe (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_antitrust_case). Disclaimer: I've never used Mono. Like others, though, I'm impressed with its staying power. Derek On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Casper Bang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > At least that has been my experience, so I'm sorry, I can't take your > > disclaimer as a fact. > > Make up any reality that floats your boat buddy. You have got to > wonder though, if nobody uses it then why continues to included it in > the default sparse Ubuntu image? > > http://www.osnews.com/story/21761/Ubuntu_Sees_No_Reason_To_Remove_Mono_from_Default_Install > > MonoDeveloper 2.0 has integrated debugger btw. I think you and many > are making the mistake of seeing Mono as just a lagging clone, when > really it is more than capable of standing on its own. For instance, > Mono had evaluation API (dynamic compilation) before C# 4.0 announced > it. > > It's a theoretical possibility that Microsoft will one day have a fit, > like any other large American corporation where legislation and law- > suits are used as a ridiculous means to an end. But that could only > involve the non-ECMA stuff and personally I don't care since I live in > Europe where you can't patent software anyway. > > /Casper > > On 2 Jul., 14:42, Juan Marín Otero <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have been "forced" to develop in .NET for a while (work requirements, > not > > by choice), started with Java several years ago. > > > > C# is a very nice programming language. Given all the discussions about > > language features lately, you could conclude it is the holy grail of > > enterprise development. Well, guess what, it is not. As nice as > properties, > > delegates and such are, when it comes down to deploying a working > > application on the server side, you are still stuck with Windows. And we > all > > know what happens to most Windows servers every once in a while, they > need > > to be rebooted, which is fine for most applications, but not for others. > I > > have not seen ANY enterprise (server side) deployments with Mono on > Linux. > > They must be out there somewhere, but compared to the number of > deployments > > with JEE technology, well.... > > > > The tooling in VS.NET seems great at first. But as previously mentioned > by > > another poster, there are lacking tools. The last project I did with .NET > > required some OR mapping, I used NHibernate with Spring.NET, so yeah, > they > > take the good ideas from the Java world and port them, which is nice, but > > you don't get as much documentation and community support, and there is > no > > integration with their IDE. Most .NET "average" developers don't even > know > > what you're talking about (different problem, but made worse by the VB > > culture of "drag, drop, F5, you're done"). > > > > I have tried Mono, since before version 1.0, and come back to take a peek > > from time to time. It is a very interesting project and I appreciate what > > that team is doing, it is an impressive technological challenge and they > > bring quite a bit of innovation to the platform themselves, just don't > > expect MS to take any of that. But in the end they are playing catch up, > > trying to follow a moving target. The tools are horrible still, no > > consistent debugger integrated in MonoDevelop by default last time I > looked. > > That in itself is a deal breaker for me (command line is nice for a pet > > project or to take a look, but I can't use it by itself for real life > > projects). > > > > If they had designed the platform freely and not try to mimic MS APIs > (which > > they still can't do), maybe it would have been more interesting. As I > said, > > C# is nice, but in the end some syntactic sugar doesn't get the job done > by > > itself. > > > > My 2c. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Casper Bang <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On 2 Jul., 13:48, Steven Herod <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > But I do have an issue with Mono, deep down inside I think it's the > > > > kind of thing MS lets run because it lets them pay lip service to > > > > 'cross platform'. > > > > > Who cares what Microsoft says anyway, the real interesting thing is > > > what their engineers do - that's what we should pay attention to > > > instead of focusing on politics/religion. > > > > > > C#/.Net on Linux seems to be the worst of all possible worlds, but > > > > that's just my personal opinion. > > > > > Funny, I see it as the best of all possible worlds. Some sleek > > > technology we'll never get in Java without the lock-in of Visual > > > Studio and Windows. > > > > > Alexander: You are likely to find many people turned off by Mono for a > > > great many reasons but the ones that matter. The speed and ingenuity > > > of that community is mind-boggling, and although Microsoft tried, > > > Miguel could not be bought. You gotta wonder, if anyone else than > > > Microsoft were behing the Ecma spec, we would probably have had C# on > > > the JVM by now. > > > > > *Disclaimer, uses Mono constantly through Gnome-Do etc. like the rest > > > of the pragmatic Linux crowd > > > > > > *Disclaimer, never used Mono, > > > > > > On Jul 2, 4:50 pm, Alexander Egger <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I developed in Java for many years. I changed my Job a year ago and > > > > > since then I use C#/.Net at work. > > > > > > > As you said the language is not an issue. C# has some syntactic > sugar > > > > > like properties, events, closures and (to some degree) LINQ which > can > > > > > be nice but apart from that the differences are minor. As a Java > > > > > developer it helps to look at what methods the compiler creates for > > > > > example for properties to feel very much at home. > > > > > > > What I still struggle with is the tools. We use Visual Studio which > is > > > > > sure great for smaller GUI projects but can hardly manage the 100+ > > > > > projects for our sever application. Refactoring is there but not > > > > > nearly as good as in Netbeans/Eclipse. There is no build in support > > > > > for OR mappers. The support for unit test is there but could really > be > > > > > better. So to get to a level of coding experience like in > > > > > Eclipse/Netbeans you have to install 3rd party plugins (Resharper > from > > > > > the makers of IntelliJ is worth its money). > > > > > > > I did some experiments with Mono and MonoDevelop which are really > not > > > > > bad but still have a long way to go to catch up with what you are > used > > > > > to as a Java Developer. > > > > > > > So my summary after one year of C# is: C# is good and even better > than > > > > > Java when it comes to GUI development *on Windows!*. On the server > > > > > side C#/.Net can be a pain because it lacks a lot of infrastructure > > > > > (application servers) you are just used to as a Java programmer. > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, ad<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm considering a new job which will primarily involve c# and > mono, > > > > > > neither of which I have any experience at all with. From what > I've > > > > > > gathered, most programmers seem to like c#, and it seems to be an > > > easy > > > > > > transition from java. I've heard some legal concerns about mono, > but > > > > > > it sure seems to be more and more used in linux. Any feedback > from > > > > > > java guys that have used c# and/or mono, or just have an opinion > on > > > it > > > > > > is appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Dr. Alexander Egger > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > UPPER Network GmbH > > > > > > > A-8141 Unterpremstätten, Seering 7/2 > > > > > Tel: +43-316 2299 125, Fax: +43-316 231123-8219 > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > -- > > > > > This email message is intended only for the named recipient. The > > > > > information transmitted may be confidential or privileged. If you > are > > > > > not the intended recipient, any form of disclosure, reproduction, > > > > > distribution or any action taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. > If > > > > > you received this email message in error, please contact the sender > > > > > immediately and delete it from your system > > > > -- > > Juan Marín Otero > > Ingeniero de Montes > > Consultor SIG > > > > -------Visita mis blog en--------------------- > http://programacionsig.blogspot.com > > --------------------------------------------------- > http://guachintoneando.blogspot.com > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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