Having discussed matters with Neal and having read pretty much everything he's written in public since he was at Sun, I'd say he just speaks his mind, and I don't think he'd stake his awesome reputation by saying what he's ordered to Microsoft.
Reinier, I recently disagreed with someone who was calling you a troll "no better than Jon Harrop", but that was before joining this mailing list a few days ago. Ricky. -- Ricky Clarkson Java and Scala Programmer, AD Holdings +44 1928 706373 Skype: ricky_clarkson On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote: > Reinier, > > How about you come to the forum with something constructive to say instead > of bashing what everyone else is saying? Seriously, people would like to > find a path through this mess and have something they can definitively say > when their boss starts asking questions. All you have done is voiced a lot > of disappointment and angst. I mentioned OpenJDK as an option and there is > some concern from Neal Gafter that there might be problems there too. > > If you have a better idea, please share it for all of us to read. > > Sorry, but I take offense at people who just go around bashing what others > say when they have nothing to contribute. > > - Robert > > On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 5:16 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> You're taking something Neal says as gospel? >> >> He's might be a professional troll, paid by microsoft to sow confusion >> in the ranks. >> >> This is a copy of the OSS (the precursor of the CIA)'s manual on >> casual sabotage in the field. It has a section on sabotaging >> businesses. Neal pretty much covered everything in that on various >> java language mailing lists. I don't know if he's merely a pedantic >> stickler, or actively trying to sabotage java. Just saying. >> >> http://www.slideshare.net/pastinson/u-oss-simple-sabotage-sm >> >> On Sep 2, 7:31 pm, dario <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Apparently not. >> > >> > From Neal Gafter's recent blog posting: >> > >> > "...even though I am a contributor to openjdk7, I do not have a >> > license to Oracle's patents that are necessarily infringed by the use >> > of the openjdk7 source base. This is a very confusing position for the >> > organizer of an open-source effort to take." >> > >> > http://gafter.blogspot.com/2010/08/couple-of-comments-on-defender-met... >> > >> > -Dario >> > >> > On Aug 31, 10:29 am, Jan Goyvaerts <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > Is OpenJDK independent from Oracle ? >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 16:24, Robert Casto <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > I very much like where this thread is headed. >> > >> > > > Having viable options with Java that Oracle can not touch sounds >> > > > like a win >> > > > for the community. There is a lot of value in those libraries that >> > > > can be >> > > > leveraged by a developer. That makes them productive and of benefit >> > > > to a >> > > > company. If all we have to do is change the underlying VM to >> > > > something that >> > > > is safe from Oracle, then so be it. I'm sure that VM would get a lot >> > > > more >> > > > attention from the community to make it great for production use. >> > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Kevin Wright >> > > > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> > > >> Funny really, in OS design the small core, big libs approach has >> > > >> long been >> > > >> preferred. >> > >> > > >> The windows NT MicroKernel dates back to 1993 >> > > >> The original Unix Kernel, 1973 >> > >> > > >> In programming languages, it's not so clear-cut. LISP dates back >> > > >> to 1958, >> > > >> and even then you could define your own control constructs within >> > > >> the >> > > >> language - the actual spec is VERY small. >> > >> > > >> C++ and derivatives (including Java, C#) broke from this, with >> > > >> higher-level constructs such as `for`, `switch` and `while` being >> > > >> deeply >> > > >> embedded at the library level and in the VM. Clojure, Scala and F# >> > > >> are once >> > > >> again pulling the pendulum back again to the small kernel, big libs >> > > >> idea >> > > >> (working with the VM as necessary), and LLVM is doing the same sort >> > > >> of thing >> > > >> at a lower level. For example, tail-call optimisation against the >> > > >> JVM is >> > > >> currently achieved through a technique known as "trampolining" ( >> > > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_recursion#Implementation_methods) >> > >> > > >> So perhaps with the shifting trends in languages, a lighter weight >> > > >> VM >> > > >> really is the right way to go, especially if VMKit & co. can be >> > > >> used to >> > > >> allow us to get at all those juicy open-source libs... >> > >> > > >> On 31 August 2010 13:25, Miroslav Pokorny >> > > >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> > > >>> The reason Java became the most popular platform on the planet is >> > > >>> because >> > > >>> of all the oss libraries. Nothing out there beats or even comes >> > > >>> close in >> > > >>> comparison. Good luck with such a richness of choice and quality >> > > >>> in dotnet >> > > >>> land. Maybe java is not quite as fancy as c# but in the end we are >> > > >>> all most >> > > >>> of the time just the guy who adds glue between one library and >> > > >>> something >> > > >>> else. Maybe Java is a bit more verbose or not as elegant...but in >> > > >>> the end >> > > >>> that does not matter, because what we lose in elegance and >> > > >>> language features >> > > >>> is more than offseted by magnitudes with oss. >> > >> > > >>> -- >> > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > >>> Groups >> > > >>> "The Java Posse" group. >> > > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > >>> >> > > >>> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > > >>> .com> >> > > >>> . >> > > >>> For more options, visit this group at >> > > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > >> > > >> -- >> > > >> Kevin Wright >> > >> > > >> mail/google talk: [email protected] >> > > >> wave: [email protected] >> > > >> skype: kev.lee.wright >> > > >> twitter: @thecoda >> > >> > > >> -- >> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > >> Groups >> > > >> "The Java Posse" group. >> > > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > >> >> > > >> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > > >> .com> >> > > >> . >> > > >> For more options, visit this group at >> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > >> > > > -- >> > > > Robert Casto >> > > >www.robertcasto.com >> > >> > > > -- >> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > > Groups >> > > > "The Java Posse" group. >> > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > > >> > > > [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > > > .com> >> > > > . >> > > > For more options, visit this group at >> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Robert Casto > www.robertcasto.com > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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