wow, I don't think Neal is anything of that sorts. He is a very brilliant language person.. there aren't that many people that share his knowledge and experience and passion to the table. He may work for MS but IMHO he is still very vested in Java, the language. You may disagree with him but to call him a professional troll is so far out of bounds I'd call it trolling by yourself.
Regards, Kirk On Sep 3, 2010, at 1:33 PM, Robert Casto wrote: > Reinier, > > How about you come to the forum with something constructive to say instead of > bashing what everyone else is saying? Seriously, people would like to find a > path through this mess and have something they can definitively say when > their boss starts asking questions. All you have done is voiced a lot of > disappointment and angst. I mentioned OpenJDK as an option and there is some > concern from Neal Gafter that there might be problems there too. > > If you have a better idea, please share it for all of us to read. > > Sorry, but I take offense at people who just go around bashing what others > say when they have nothing to contribute. > > - Robert > > On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 5:16 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> > wrote: > You're taking something Neal says as gospel? > > He's might be a professional troll, paid by microsoft to sow confusion > in the ranks. > > This is a copy of the OSS (the precursor of the CIA)'s manual on > casual sabotage in the field. It has a section on sabotaging > businesses. Neal pretty much covered everything in that on various > java language mailing lists. I don't know if he's merely a pedantic > stickler, or actively trying to sabotage java. Just saying. > > http://www.slideshare.net/pastinson/u-oss-simple-sabotage-sm > > On Sep 2, 7:31 pm, dario <[email protected]> wrote: > > Apparently not. > > > > From Neal Gafter's recent blog posting: > > > > "...even though I am a contributor to openjdk7, I do not have a > > license to Oracle's patents that are necessarily infringed by the use > > of the openjdk7 source base. This is a very confusing position for the > > organizer of an open-source effort to take." > > > > http://gafter.blogspot.com/2010/08/couple-of-comments-on-defender-met... > > > > -Dario > > > > On Aug 31, 10:29 am, Jan Goyvaerts <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is OpenJDK independent from Oracle ? > > > > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 16:24, Robert Casto <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > I very much like where this thread is headed. > > > > > > Having viable options with Java that Oracle can not touch sounds like a > > > > win > > > > for the community. There is a lot of value in those libraries that can > > > > be > > > > leveraged by a developer. That makes them productive and of benefit to a > > > > company. If all we have to do is change the underlying VM to something > > > > that > > > > is safe from Oracle, then so be it. I'm sure that VM would get a lot > > > > more > > > > attention from the community to make it great for production use. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Kevin Wright > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> Funny really, in OS design the small core, big libs approach has long > > > >> been > > > >> preferred. > > > > > >> The windows NT MicroKernel dates back to 1993 > > > >> The original Unix Kernel, 1973 > > > > > >> In programming languages, it's not so clear-cut. LISP dates back to > > > >> 1958, > > > >> and even then you could define your own control constructs within the > > > >> language - the actual spec is VERY small. > > > > > >> C++ and derivatives (including Java, C#) broke from this, with > > > >> higher-level constructs such as `for`, `switch` and `while` being > > > >> deeply > > > >> embedded at the library level and in the VM. Clojure, Scala and F# > > > >> are once > > > >> again pulling the pendulum back again to the small kernel, big libs > > > >> idea > > > >> (working with the VM as necessary), and LLVM is doing the same sort of > > > >> thing > > > >> at a lower level. For example, tail-call optimisation against the JVM > > > >> is > > > >> currently achieved through a technique known as "trampolining" ( > > > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_recursion#Implementation_methods) > > > > > >> So perhaps with the shifting trends in languages, a lighter weight VM > > > >> really is the right way to go, especially if VMKit & co. can be used to > > > >> allow us to get at all those juicy open-source libs... > > > > > >> On 31 August 2010 13:25, Miroslav Pokorny > > > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >>> The reason Java became the most popular platform on the planet is > > > >>> because > > > >>> of all the oss libraries. Nothing out there beats or even comes close > > > >>> in > > > >>> comparison. Good luck with such a richness of choice and quality in > > > >>> dotnet > > > >>> land. Maybe java is not quite as fancy as c# but in the end we are > > > >>> all most > > > >>> of the time just the guy who adds glue between one library and > > > >>> something > > > >>> else. Maybe Java is a bit more verbose or not as elegant...but in the > > > >>> end > > > >>> that does not matter, because what we lose in elegance and language > > > >>> features > > > >>> is more than offseted by magnitudes with oss. > > > > > >>> -- > > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >>> Groups > > > >>> "The Java Posse" group. > > > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >>> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > > > >>> .com> > > > >>> . > > > >>> For more options, visit this group at > > > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > > >> -- > > > >> Kevin Wright > > > > > >> mail/google talk: [email protected] > > > >> wave: [email protected] > > > >> skype: kev.lee.wright > > > >> twitter: @thecoda > > > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >> Groups > > > >> "The Java Posse" group. > > > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > > > >> .com> > > > >> . > > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > > Robert Casto > > > >www.robertcasto.com > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups > > > > "The Java Posse" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > > > > .com> > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > > -- > Robert Casto > www.robertcasto.com > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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