(replies inline) On Thu, 08 Feb 2018, Surya Gaddipati wrote:
> Hi, > > This is exciting new development. > > Couple of comments > > 1. Packaging supervisord with another executable is a docker anti pattern. > I assume any serious jenkins deployment is on a scheduler like > swarm/kubernetes ect where supervisord is not necessary. I understand the point made but I disagree with the notion that "serious" Jenkins deployments are using Swarm or Kubernetes. The Jenkins project itself (for example) has been running Docker in production for over four years now, without a container orchestrator of any kind. This includes https://ci.jenkins.io/. We use the garethr/docker Puppet module (https://forge.puppet.com/garethr/docker) which itself has millions of downloads by folks managing Docker services "the hard way." That said, we also have a Kubernetes environment where we're deploying newer applications (e.g. https://plugins.jenkins.io/) into. So I /agree/ with the point that Kubernetes is likely a good candidate for replacing some of the Jenkins lifecycle management work that supervisord is currently performing, which is why I mention Kubernetes in JEP-301 at all. However, I strongly disagree that the market is "there" yet, I think making a container orchestrator a requirement at this point would only inhibit adoption and learning. I am instead erring on the side of "simple and fast" from a user perspective, the closest we can get (IMHO) to the `java -jar jenkins.war` experience, the easier the adoption and experimentation will be for the user audience I want to reach. > 2. Scripting should be done via yaml files, not environment variables( > init.d/groovy). All essential plugins should be made compatible with > configuration-as-code. I fully intend on using as much support as possible from the Configuration as Code effort which Ewelina and Nicolas are working on. I do not intend to undertake, as part of Jenkins Essentials, patching or updating plugins in order to support it however. My order of priority for scripting Jenkins is: 1. Configuration as Code 2. Groovy scripting (bleh) 3. Hopefully very little if any scary hacks. So I think we're mostly on same page here :) > 3. Pipeline while powerful is contrary to the goal of getting new users > started quickly. From my personal experience, very few new users have the > appetite to learn groovy scripting to setup their builds, they just want to > something to run `npm test`. > A declarative yaml file like travisci,circle ect is the *correct* > approach here. I agree that this is an important goal for Jenkins as a whole to consider: making Pipeline easier to use and be successful with. I believe those currently hacking on Pipeline, like abayer, would agree with that sentiment. What *is* in the scope of this work is making Jenkins easier to understand "out of the box" (https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300#obvious-path) which I believe is going to entail a number of copy-and-pasteable examples of common Jenkinsfiles, and other forms of built-in examples and documentation. Overall, thank you very much for taking the time to read JEPs and provide feedback. The way I am interpreting your overall feedback, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the direction is promising but want to encourage good fundamentals on the implementation. Anywho, thanks again :) - R. Tyler Croy ------------------------------------------------------ Code: <https://github.com/rtyler> Chatter: <https://twitter.com/agentdero> xmpp: rty...@jabber.org % gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 1426C7DC3F51E16F ------------------------------------------------------ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/20180214000422.hkio3rohqdgzn4pd%40blackberry.coupleofllamas.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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