Kit, I am damn happy. I do not like Ruby.
deploy/run/test not a problem....
mvn jetty:run
Ok... I will bite, but just this once.
When real trends start lining up with your Ruby prognostications
then I will
drink some of the Ruby flavor-aid that you guys have been spewing
for the
last three+ years. But when Java demand grows in 4 months larger
than the
entire Ruby market, I look at Ruby and laugh. I am happy that you
can be
paid to do Ruby development if that is what floats your boat, but I
do not
like Ruby.
For now I will stick to Java and Groovy with glee in my heart that I
can get
paid for something that I love to do.
I actually prefer Groovy to Python now. Groovy is everything I
wanted Jython
to be back in 1999 when I wrote Programming the Java APIs with
Jython (a
book that no one read).
When you say "Java is Dead" it sounds a lot like "Ruby has won". In
terms of
the Lamp world Ruby is dead last behind the likes of PHP, Perl and
Python.
In terms of the enterprise world, Ruby does not even show up. Ruby
has won
in the sense of a politically correct school where every kid with
two left
legs wins a race because we are all winners after all. Ruby has not
won
anything in any real sense except in the percentage of hype versus
impact in
the real world. In that sense Java is not Dead, Java is Michael
Phelps.
On 12/9/08 6:40 PM, "Kit Plummer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Umm...SpringSource is really backing Grails (which happens to already
be built on Spring).
Yes in a way they are. If they backed Rails in a similar manner you
would
be all over it. Your point is moot.
Groovy is a JSR, and so is JRuby. JRuby
development is also being done by Sun engineers - so I'm not sure
what
your point is.
The same can be said of EJB 1.0. Moot point. Sun's backing has little
influence on success. In fact, some may say that Java success is a
fluke.
Sun sends out 100 things for every 1 that floats. Rod Johnson et al
have a
much better track record (although much smaller one).
FWIW, Groovy was originally "invented" by James
Strachan...who's neither a SpringSource or Sun guy, to say the least.
Well known fact and not disputed. Again.... Moot point. SpringSource
could
have backed some Rail turds but they choose Grail turds. This was my
point.
Grails is tied to Groovy.
The thing that you are missing in you're quantitative analysis below
is the percentage of happy developers in both camps. I would assert,
but you don't have to believe me, that there are many more happy Ruby
devers than Java devers. Not only that - but, the issue of quality
comes into play some where too. I won't provide an assertion here -
but, it is a relative notion.
Silliness. I know plenty of Java developers that tried Ruby and
hated it.
What makes you happy does not correlate to the general population
per se.
For example, there are people in the world who are quite content
drinking
their own urine, but I would not sell my stock in Coca-Cola quite yet.
Don't get me wrong there is a plenty of ego on both sides of the
fence
here. It is imperative that you can see past this to the real
value -
developmental efficiency. There's no way Java can win - based on its
code, build, deploy/run/test, code, build deploy/run/test cycle.
Prompt> mvn jetty:run
Runs the entire webapp. Starts up damn quick.
Java is the undisputed champion. Ruby is a mere pimple on the ass of
development. It will take its place in history next to.... (at this
point I
realize if I name anything... I will just piss off a whole other
group of
people....)
Groovy helps...but, as soon as there is any level of complexity
you'll
be burdened with pure Java once again.
This makes no sense. Why? I have written large things in Groovy and
did not
need to revert to Java. This is silliness. Moot point.
If for no other reason than Sun is a turd, Java is dead.
Unproven opinion, easily refuted with real evidence. Java is in no
way dead.
It will fall out of favor eventually as all things do.
Ruby will be a never was. Java will one day be a former heavy weight
champion of the world.
Open
sourcing Sun's version of the JVM and platform has done nothing for
ensuring its longevity. Only said with a slight grin.
On Dec 9, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Richard Hightower wrote:
RE: Java is dead, long live the JVM. JRuby FTW in the enterprise.
From May 08 to Sept 08 Java job demand grew 3 times higher (in raw
numbers)
than the total Ruby market. But let's not mere facts get in the way
of your
"Java is dead" argument. Java continues to dwarf Ruby. And, Ruby
does not
seem to be picking up a lot of ground. Sure if you start from zero,
percentage of growth sky rockets, but.... Not enough.
BTW I prefer Groovy, but I won't claim Ruby is dead.
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java+programming%2C+ruby+programming&l=
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+ruby&l=
I am glad to see that Spring source is backing Groovy. I wonder why
they did
not back Jruby in a similar manner. Hmmmm....
On 12/9/08 12:04 PM, "Chad Woolley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Here's the latest performance numbers on JRuby:
http://antoniocangiano.com/2008/12/09/the-great-ruby-shootout-december-2008/
Summary - JRuby is doing very well; came in second after Ruby 1.9;
and
compatibility is good and getting better all the time.
Ok, troll time:
My opinion - definitely try JRuby over Groovy. You get all the
benefits of the Java ecosystem: native calls to java libraries, JVM
execution, JIT compilation, packaging, war/ear-based deployment,
etc,
etc. Most importantly, however, you get a language that was
designed
to "make people happy". Most Rubyists - especially those with
experience in other languages - agree it achieves this goal well.
As for Groovy, I still say it is an attempt to make a static
language
(Java) appear dynamic. They've done a decent job, but when you
really
compare it to using native Ruby, the warts and sharp edges poke
through.
The only argument I see in favor of Groovy is integration with the
Java ecosystem, which JRuby effectively negates. Conversely, all
language or syntax preference or prejudice aside, the Ruby
ecosystem
is also very rich (rubygems and github), and you cannot take
advantage
of this with Groovy. Why not be able to choose from the best of
both
worlds?
Java is dead, long live the JVM. JRuby FTW in the enterprise.
-- Chad
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Todd Ellermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
One more side note. JRuby runs on the JVM as well, and for a
while was out
performing the native Ruby interpreters. Not sure if that is still
true.
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