We own our bodies and the organisms within those bodies. Whether
your opinion is that a fetus is a human being or not is irrelevant.
If you disagree, you are saying we don't own our body or the organisms
within it. You are saying we don't have sole dominion.
You are saying you are not advocating libertarianism.
--- In [email protected], "David Macko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> See www.l4l.org
> Take as many hours as you need to read
> all of it. Since my time is valuable, I do not
> intend to spend more of it on this subject with
> anyone who has not done so.
>
> For life and liberty,
> David Macko
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:58 PM
> Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Badnarik on Immigration
>
>
> > To claim someone else's opinion matters is to say that we do not own
> > our own bodies or the organisms within our own body. Do deny that we
> > have sole dominion over our own body and the organisms within it? You
> > obviously are trying to attribute human life onto an organism that
> > doesn't have it. And eveyr single time you compare abortion to the
> > holocaust or racism, you're only making your own argument look more
> > and more stupid and pointless. There is no parallel whatsoever.
> >
> > You failed to address the fact that a fetus has no human life. You
> > claim it does, but that is merely YOUR opinion which is worthless.
> > The only opinion that matters from a LIBERTARIAN perspective is
that of
> > the pregnant woman.
> >
> > You have NOTHING to back your point of view, while mine is 100%
> > compatable with libertarian philosophy.
> >
> > So I say, "a brick has no human life", and you say, "the germans
> > thought the jews had no human life". I say "We own ourselves and
> > nobody else's opinion matters when it comes to our own body or the
> > organisms within that body" you reply with "The Nazis thought their
> > opinion was the only one that matters". Nothing you've said refutes
> > anything I've said. If I say, "a dog has no human life", you'll say
> > "the KKK doesn't think black people are human". What does that have
> > to do with the conversation?
> >
> > So the question is clear. It's a yes or no question. If you're
> > intellectually honest, you won't answer it with anything other than a
> > yes or no.
> >
> > Do you believe that we have sole dominion over our own body and the
> > organisms within that body?
> >
> > Yes or No?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit" <uncoolrabbit@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> And no ones opinions matter Accept the PURE germans, and no ones
> >> opinions matter accept the superior WHITES. Your a perfect paralel
> >> Paul. I am not here to discuss what your not willing to discuss.
> >> Rather, what place the discussion should have and why.
> >>
> >> --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Yes, everyone has an opinion and none of the opinions matter but
> >> the
> >> > pregnant woman. Not yours, not mine, and not the American
> >> people's.
> >> > No position other than full support for the right of women to have
> >> an
> >> > abortion at any state of pregnancy from conception to birth is a
> >> > libertarian one. No claims that a fetus has human rights have any
> >> > more merit than claiming a tapeworm or a tumor has human rights.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit" <uncoolrabbit@>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Opinions are worthless Paul, every one has atleast a few. You
> >> gave
> >> > > me your opinion, legislation written on opinion rather than
> >> factual
> >> > > logic is no diferent than the conservative right's imposition of
> >> > > morale laws, or the lefts imposiiton of rob from the rich steal
> >> from
> >> > > the poor and is in every way shape and form the tool of a
> >> statist.
> >> > >
> >> > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > In the case of abortion, there is no aggression directed at a
> >> > > child.
> >> > > > There is no child to aggress against. A fetus is alive in the
> >> same
> >> > > > way a tumor is alive. Both have human dna cells. Both have
> >> the
> >> > > same
> >> > > > amount of human life....NONE.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit"
> >> <uncoolrabbit@>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The other day I remembered why I was drawn to
> >> Libertarianism. A
> >> > > > > friend, who is republican, said that there needs to be a
> >> dress
> >> > > code
> >> > > > > in schools. (He is a teacher). I asked why, he said the
> >> other
> >> > > day a
> >> > > > > kid came in wearing a shirt that said 'buck fuddy'. I asked
> >> him
> >> > > > > what that means, and he went on a tiraid of cliches rather
> >> than
> >> > > > > explaining why he felt that there should be a dress code,
> >> and
> >> > > asked
> >> > > > > me why I 'took the kids side.' I said I haven't taken a
> >> side,
> >> > > but
> >> > > > > the default should always be that people have there own
> >> personal
> >> > > > > freedoms.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > There is alot of room in Libertarianism for logic, a person
> >> can
> >> > > do
> >> > > > > anything that does not hurt anouther. I believe a real
> >> > > philosophical
> >> > > > > victory would come from adhering to a policy on defending
> >> > > liberty
> >> > > > > within the confines of not injuring others. There is alot to
> >> be
> >> > > said
> >> > > > > on both sides here, so we must, to achieve a 'philosophical
> >> > > triumph'
> >> > > > > hold to our philosophical values, as you Terry said to me,
> >> what
> >> > > was
> >> > > > > it, something to the effect of if you do not stand for
> >> something
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > stand for nothing? Back to the point, a principle that many
> >> > > here, I
> >> > > > > think even Paul, have claimed to support is tracing
> >> initiation
> >> > > of
> >> > > > > force to its source in determing who is the agressor, or
> >> where
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > agression is comming from.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > In the case of Abortion, were is the agression comming from,
> >> is
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > comming from the child? Not hardly, the child did not exhist
> >> > > prior
> >> > > > > to conception and had no conscious part in it. It was
> >> actions
> >> > > taken
> >> > > > > by the parents that are responsible for its very being. This
> >> is
> >> > > an
> >> > > > > important to mention, responsible, as the are responsible
> >> for
> >> > > this
> >> > > > > life.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The fetus, for Paul who enjoys the term, is alive, and
> >> abortion
> >> > > > > terminates that life, it kills the fetus, who is not
> >> responsible
> >> > > for
> >> > > > > the condition of the mother. The agression is the act of the
> >> > > > > responsible party, terminating the very exhistance of the
> >> 2nd
> >> > > party
> >> > > > > to avoid there own responsibilities and consequences of
> >> there
> >> > > > > actions. Nothing could be to me, more unlibertarian.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I however, do understand that not every one thinks like me,
> >> and
> >> > > > > believe there should not be a federal law banning abortion.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Also, I just want to say, if I haven't before, that I love
> >> > > hearing
> >> > > > > from you on the board Thomas.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp"
> >> > > > > <thomaslknapp@> wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Quoth Boyd:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > It may be a philosophical victory
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > It would be neither philosophical nor a victory.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > In order for it to be "philosophical," it would have to
> >> > > incorporate
> >> > > > > > reasoned argument rather than simply bluster and attempted
> >> > > > > > authoritative personal ukase.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > In order for it to be a "victory," it would have to elicit
> >> a
> >> > > > > reaction
> >> > > > > > from its audience to the effect that it _is_ reasoned
> >> argument
> >> > > > > rather
> >> > > > > > than bluster and ukase.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Tom Knapp
>
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