attributed to a pre-born human individual?
Please see what I wrote in this forum as
'PERSONHOOD: Abortion & beyond'
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/48100
-Terry Liberty Parker
http://profiles.yahoo.com/txliberty
--- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> A much better statement of yourpoint of view than recently, but
> you "obviously are trying to" strip the human atrribute from a
human
> organism, just as the slaver or the fascist before you. :)
>
> --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote:
> >
> > To claim someone else's opinion matters is to say that we do not
> own
> > our own bodies or the organisms within our own body. Do deny
that
> we
> > have sole dominion over our own body and the organisms within
it?
> You
> > obviously are trying to attribute human life onto an organism that
> > doesn't have it. And eveyr single time you compare abortion to
the
> > holocaust or racism, you're only making your own argument look
more
> > and more stupid and pointless. There is no parallel whatsoever.
> >
> > You failed to address the fact that a fetus has no human life.
You
> > claim it does, but that is merely YOUR opinion which is
worthless.
> > The only opinion that matters from a LIBERTARIAN perspective is
> that of the pregnant woman.
> >
> > You have NOTHING to back your point of view, while mine is 100%
> > compatable with libertarian philosophy.
> >
> > So I say, "a brick has no human life", and you say, "the germans
> > thought the jews had no human life". I say "We own ourselves and
> > nobody else's opinion matters when it comes to our own body or the
> > organisms within that body" you reply with "The Nazis thought
their
> > opinion was the only one that matters". Nothing you've said
> refutes
> > anything I've said. If I say, "a dog has no human life", you'll
> say
> > "the KKK doesn't think black people are human". What does that
> have
> > to do with the conversation?
> >
> > So the question is clear. It's a yes or no question. If you're
> > intellectually honest, you won't answer it with anything other
> than a
> > yes or no.
> >
> > Do you believe that we have sole dominion over our own body and
the
> > organisms within that body?
> >
> > Yes or No?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit" <uncoolrabbit@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > And no ones opinions matter Accept the PURE germans, and no
ones
> > > opinions matter accept the superior WHITES. Your a perfect
> paralel
> > > Paul. I am not here to discuss what your not willing to
discuss.
> > > Rather, what place the discussion should have and why.
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, everyone has an opinion and none of the opinions matter
> but
> > > the
> > > > pregnant woman. Not yours, not mine, and not the American
> > > people's.
> > > > No position other than full support for the right of women to
> have
> > > an
> > > > abortion at any state of pregnancy from conception to birth
is
> a
> > > > libertarian one. No claims that a fetus has human rights
have
> any
> > > > more merit than claiming a tapeworm or a tumor has human
> rights.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit"
> <uncoolrabbit@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Opinions are worthless Paul, every one has atleast a few.
> You
> > > gave
> > > > > me your opinion, legislation written on opinion rather than
> > > factual
> > > > > logic is no diferent than the conservative right's
> imposition of
> > > > > morale laws, or the lefts imposiiton of rob from the rich
> steal
> > > from
> > > > > the poor and is in every way shape and form the tool of a
> > > statist.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the case of abortion, there is no aggression directed
> at a
> > > > > child.
> > > > > > There is no child to aggress against. A fetus is alive
in
> the
> > > same
> > > > > > way a tumor is alive. Both have human dna cells. Both
> have
> > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > amount of human life....NONE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit"
> > > <uncoolrabbit@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The other day I remembered why I was drawn to
> > > Libertarianism. A
> > > > > > > friend, who is republican, said that there needs to be
a
> > > dress
> > > > > code
> > > > > > > in schools. (He is a teacher). I asked why, he said the
> > > other
> > > > > day a
> > > > > > > kid came in wearing a shirt that said 'buck fuddy'. I
> asked
> > > him
> > > > > > > what that means, and he went on a tiraid of cliches
> rather
> > > than
> > > > > > > explaining why he felt that there should be a dress
> code,
> > > and
> > > > > asked
> > > > > > > me why I 'took the kids side.' I said I haven't taken a
> > > side,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > the default should always be that people have there own
> > > personal
> > > > > > > freedoms.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is alot of room in Libertarianism for logic, a
> person
> > > can
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > anything that does not hurt anouther. I believe a real
> > > > > philosophical
> > > > > > > victory would come from adhering to a policy on
> defending
> > > > > liberty
> > > > > > > within the confines of not injuring others. There is
> alot to
> > > be
> > > > > said
> > > > > > > on both sides here, so we must, to achieve
> a 'philosophical
> > > > > triumph'
> > > > > > > hold to our philosophical values, as you Terry said to
> me,
> > > what
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > it, something to the effect of if you do not stand for
> > > something
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > stand for nothing? Back to the point, a principle that
> many
> > > > > here, I
> > > > > > > think even Paul, have claimed to support is tracing
> > > initiation
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > force to its source in determing who is the agressor,
or
> > > where
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > agression is comming from.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the case of Abortion, were is the agression comming
> from,
> > > is
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > comming from the child? Not hardly, the child did not
> exhist
> > > > > prior
> > > > > > > to conception and had no conscious part in it. It was
> > > actions
> > > > > taken
> > > > > > > by the parents that are responsible for its very being.
> This
> > > is
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > important to mention, responsible, as the are
> responsible
> > > for
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > life.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The fetus, for Paul who enjoys the term, is alive, and
> > > abortion
> > > > > > > terminates that life, it kills the fetus, who is not
> > > responsible
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > the condition of the mother. The agression is the act
of
> the
> > > > > > > responsible party, terminating the very exhistance of
> the
> > > 2nd
> > > > > party
> > > > > > > to avoid there own responsibilities and consequences of
> > > there
> > > > > > > actions. Nothing could be to me, more unlibertarian.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I however, do understand that not every one thinks like
> me,
> > > and
> > > > > > > believe there should not be a federal law banning
> abortion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, I just want to say, if I haven't before, that I
> love
> > > > > hearing
> > > > > > > from you on the board Thomas.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp"
> > > > > > > <thomaslknapp@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Quoth Boyd:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It may be a philosophical victory
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It would be neither philosophical nor a victory.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In order for it to be "philosophical," it would have
> to
> > > > > incorporate
> > > > > > > > reasoned argument rather than simply bluster and
> attempted
> > > > > > > > authoritative personal ukase.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In order for it to be a "victory," it would have to
> elicit
> > > a
> > > > > > > reaction
> > > > > > > > from its audience to the effect that it _is_ reasoned
> > > argument
> > > > > > > rather
> > > > > > > > than bluster and ukase.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tom Knapp
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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