John, I assumed if they want to continue to live where they are they
don't have many options with out outside assintance but that is not
what I ask. What do they want, not what others want, not what the
tribal council wants, not what I want, not what you want, not what
the BIA wants, not what the state government of Utah but as a true
consenesus as much as possbile, what do they
want?
John I think you deserve your pay, propally much more but I was
just commenting that I thought it was unpaid because it was called
volunter. Granted when I lived on 500 dollars a year to 1,500 I did
not live that far out in the sticks, I lived where I am now which is
still not out in the sticks its about 7 miles from the nearest town,
2 miles from the nearest small store, 18 miles from the nearest
hospital and shopping center, 25 miles from the nearest mall and 36
miles from my job. I ate a lot of dryed beans, potatoes, corn meal,
flour, coffee, tea, sugar, wild blackberrys, hickory nuts, eggs from
my chickens, greens and other stuff from the garden, a can of beef or
brunswhick stew sometimes and a hamburgers at Kristol ( like White
Castles) on my way to the movies when I went, sometimes I also had
the option of wild rabbit, squiirel and deer plus fish from the river
and lake but I wasn't much on hunting then. A lot of times I did not
have electricty, did not have a phone, used wood to heat, did not
carry car insurance and did not have health insurance so I had no
expenses other than food, toliet paper, soap, tooth paste and a bit
of gasoline for my car when I had one. I fiqure with inflation 1,500
dollars is about the same as 6,000 to 7,500 today, I could survive
and pay my property taxes on 50 dollars a week, I could live fairly
decent and have health insurance on 150 a week or 7800 a year.--- In
[email protected], "John Stroebel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Terry, people can not make a choice on what they want to do when
they have
> little education and no options. Give them choices and they will
choose. If
> they do not have high school diplomas, if they do not have skills,
or work
> experience, or a way to get to work, they have no options. This
area of the
> country has 2 fast food restaurants in 60 miles. They couldn't even
sling
> burgers cause those jobs are taken by LDS teenagers.
>
> When you mention the $8400 a year, remember this: it is 30 miles
south to
> the closest town in that direction, 28 north to Blanding. It is the
> desert....100 degrees plus in summer, minus 10 in winter. You pay
your own
> way. Rent, gas, food. Without the stipend, you could not do it
unless you
> were independent financially.
>
>
> On 6/27/06, terry12622000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > She? If you mean me I am a 50 year old ugly laborer
> > man.
> >
> > If you notice I deleted the below post of mine after reviewing
your
> > other post where I followed up by saying I probably owe you an
> > apology. So yes I think you would have gotten over it
> > anyway.
> > As far as your questions goes let me say first that maybe I made
> > a mistake in calling todays Vista workers volunters, i did not
know
> > they are payed 8,400 dollars a year, I did not know they were
payed
> > anything. I lived on 500 bucks a year for a couple of years back
in
> > the 80s, a 1,000 another year and 1,500 in another but I did not
do
> > much for it picked up a few cans, mowed a few yards, cut a little
> > fire wood but if I had been payed 1,000 dollars to help others or
> > 8,000 dollars these days I would not call it volunter work, it
work
> > but I suppose a smart fellow like yourself could be making a lot
more
> > money so in a way you are
> > voluntering.
> > As far as who should pay, well you placed one out of
> > possible answers to how it could be paid, a fender off a Humvee
sent
> > to Iraq would pay your wages, Remember In a earler post when you
were
> > bemoaning the fact that Saddam is no longer in power that I
thought
> > they should have nevered invaded Iraq and the US miltary should
come
> > home now. Let's see the federal, state, county and local
governments
> > have trillions of dollars in hard and liquid assets, the federal
> > government alone has trillions of dollars in hard assets and
liquid
> > assets like bonds, stocks, gold, sliver
> > etc.
> > Annual corporate gross revenue from for profit corporations alone
> > is well over 17 trillion dollars a year, corporate assets are
over 25
> > trillion, maybe 30 trillion. Outside of the NEA( which is a large
> > nonprofit corporation) and the government employee unions private
> > corporations make up the greatest majority of the rent seeking
> > lobbyist. The debt should probably be paid by some or all of those
> > rent seeking lobbyist, Federal Reserve banks, corporations and
> > government employee unions before you even think about going after
> > smaller fish. A flat rate of 10% of corporate gross revenue could
> > bring in at least 1.7 trillion dollars it could elimnate all of
the
> > personal income tax and Social SEcurity/ Medicare tax, they
should be
> > able to pay your wages and the debt to the people you are working
> > with out of 1.7 trillion dollars or even
> > less.
> > As far as how I would help those people diffrently you are asking
> > the wrong freaking question, I gave a few possible answers in
earler
> > posts that may or may not help but the questions should be what do
> > thwe people want to do, not what the tribal council wants to do,
not
> > what you want to do, not what the BIA wants to do, not whatVista
> > wants to do, not what the private contributor of the local Vista
> > program wants to do but what the local people want to do.They
might
> > need advice, they might need a hand up but they don't need some
> > elitest snots telling them what they need or want.--- In
> >
> > [email protected] <Libertarian%40yahoogroups.com>, "John
> > Stroebel" <john.stroebel@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah, she calls me a liar. I'll try to get over that.
> > >
> > > Tell ya what Terry, let me ask you two questions:
> > >
> > > Just who IS this mysterious entity that would provide the VISTA
> > volunteers?
> > >
> > > Oh...of the $8400 paid out as stippend to the volunteers, 2/3 is
> > repaid by
> > > White Mesa. The labor cost was cheep enough to begin with, but
now
> > you have
> > > a bill of $8400 a year for 40 to 60 hours average work byu a
> > professional
> > > that now costs the government about $3,300.
> > >
> > > Less than the replacement fenders for a Humvee we send to Iraq.
> > >
> > > Second question: how would you do this differently, exactly?
> > See, 'That
> > > sucks' is not enough for me to scrap a program that is the only
one
> > > available to these folks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/27/06, terry12622000 <cottondrop@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh, I say some may have had a good experience being a Vista
> > volunter
> > > > and they probably helped several people but the likelyhood is
a
> > lot
> > > > more people could have been helped if it had not been a
government
> > > > program. I'm sure John is honest in his work and his
intentions
> > but
> > > > he is being less than honest in most of the discussion on this
> > > > thread.--- In [email protected]<Libertarian%
40yahoogroups.com><Libertarian%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > "steven linnabary"
> > > > <linnabary51@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "John Stroebel" <john.stroebel@>
> > > > >
> > > > > > That is part of what is being done there now. Oh, no, I
> > finished
> > > > a second
> > > > > > year and moved on to teach on the Wind RIver Reservation
in
> > > > Wyoming.
> > > > > > This article began with a post I was sharing...showing a
> > business
> > > > success
> > > > > on
> > > > > > this reservation. I showed an article on how VISTAS found
a
> > way
> > > > to assist
> > > > > > the Ute and Navajo children in San Juan County with sales
of
> > home
> > > > made
> > > > > candy
> > > > > > over the Internet. The success was so surprising that the
> > parents
> > > > are now
> > > > > > involved.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was a part of VISTA back in '82-'83. I did not have the
good
> > > > VISTA
> > > > > experience you did, though my project was gratifying. My
problem
> > > > was that
> > > > > VISTA required written reports, and that VISTA really did
not
> > seem
> > > > to care
> > > > > whether the project was successful or not. As far as VISTA
was
> > > > concerned,
> > > > > as long as the weekly reports were timely, the project was
> > > > successful. As
> > > > > far as I was concerned, the reports were far too time
consuming
> > > > unless I
> > > > > what I wrote was vague and contained a lot of obtuse
verbiage.
> > > > >
> > > > > Accurate reports were impossible because I was in charge of
> > > > a "Gleaning
> > > > > Program" for local farms at the local food bank. Of course
this
> > was
> > > > > neccessarily seasonal, and I found that there is actually
very
> > > > little food
> > > > > (commercially) grown in Ohio for human consumption. The
rest of
> > > > the time I
> > > > > was helping out around the food bank, which actually took up
> > nearly
> > > > all my
> > > > > time. The food bank was something that I believed in,
afterall,
> > it
> > > > wasn't
> > > > > government funded.
> > > > >
> > > > > One good experience was at the beginning of my service, I
was
> > > > required to
> > > > > sign a proclamation to defend America from all enemies,
foriegn
> > and
> > > > > domestic. I scratched out America, US and other government
> > > > references and
> > > > > replaced them with "people of the world" or some such. I
found
> > out
> > > > several
> > > > > years later that the local director of VISTA always showed
this
> > > > signed
> > > > > statement (sans my signature, I hope) to new recruits during
> > > > orientation as
> > > > > to what they were allowed to do if they had a problem with
the
> > oath.
> > > > >
> > > > > > That is what we do there...we need to first begin with
> > education.
> > > > A person
> > > > > > who can not read or spell can not access the Internet, and
> > this
> > > > is one
> > > > > major
> > > > > > way to find a market for their products. I set up a
business
> > > > council to
> > > > > help
> > > > > > Ute adults with assistance with business decisions.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here again, I found that the welfare mentality caused
people to
> > not
> > > > care or
> > > > > work toward their own welfare. This was the era of free
> > government
> > > > cheese
> > > > > handouts. People would stand in line for several hours for
a 5
> > > > pound block
> > > > > of cheese (or fight to get to the front of the line (police
were
> > > > omnipresent
> > > > > during these handouts). Sad, really.
> > > > >
> > > > > And the volunteers I managed to find for the project never
came
> > > > from the
> > > > > local food pantries, but from church groups and other civic
> > > > organizations.
> > > > >
> > > > > PEACE
> > > > > Steven R. Linnabary, Treasurer
> > > > > Franklin County Libertarian Party
> > > > > (614) 891-8841
> > > > > P.O.Box#115; Blacklick, OH 43004-0115
> > > > >
> > > > > "When you make peaceful revolution impossible, you make
violent
> > > > revolution
> > > > > inevitable" John F. Kennedy
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
*******************************************************************
> > > Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW???
> > >
> > >
*******************************************************************
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/
> > >
> > > It is time to do something about all this!
> > >
> > >
*******************************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *******************************************************************
> Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW???
>
> *******************************************************************
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/
>
> It is time to do something about all this!
>
> *******************************************************************
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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