> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> >From a safety stand point, latching relays are a disaster waiting to 
> happen.   >>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Why exclude latching relays? SAFETY.
>
> If you loose power, the only safe way is to reset every thing to the off 
> position and start over.
>
> A relay with a basic holding circuit accomplishes this by providing 
> under voltage protection.
REPLY
Why indeed?    Lew you bring up an very  contemporary topic. Also a 
hotly  debated issue.  <VBG>

It used to be  devices were designed to FAIL SAFE.   Especially in motor 
controls etc.
Thomas Kobelt  of Kobelt Engineering  gave a presentation to the 
Vancouver  chapter of Marine Engineers.
He mentioned that IMO had begun a shift to a new and very different 
concept. called FAIL in MODE.
It was obvious from the audience reaction they had widely divergent  
opinions on the subject.

What is the difference you might well  ask?  Fail safe  neans if a 
failure occurs the device reverts to a safe configuration.
An example of that is a spring loaded relay that pulls the contacts 
open  when power fails.
When motion control is involved this is probably  the best and safest 
approach. 
However with the advent of digital control  we have seen a number of  
situations where  a momentary failure  in a system might cause the 
controls to change  from the mode they were currently in.  As a result  
the momentary failuer caused  the digital controls to CHANGE  whatever 
they were controlling to some other state.

This could be a problem in some cases.   Take autopilot  and engine 
throttle controls as examples. 
Suppose there is a momentary failure  in the power supply  to the device. 
In "fail safe"  the devices revert to  zero.  This could mean the 
engines went from 3/4 throttle to no throttle.  Or in gear to out of gear.
In the case of the autopilot if the helm was  turned  over slightly  to 
one side to compensate for wind and current,  and then the power failed, 
the rudder would be returned to midships.  This may or may not  be a 
good thing depending on outside factors of wind and waves. 

FAIL in MODE on the other hand means the controls would stop in whatever 
position  they were in immediately  before the power failure.
When power is resumed  the controls woudl be exactly where they had been 
left.  .

What I had mentioned to Norm  was  using latching relays for cabin LIGHT 
CIRCUITS.  Lights are seldom toggled on or off  very often.  And when 
they are ON or OFF  you really do not want  an additional drain to keep 
the relay coil energized.in that  state.

It could also be argued that  a FAIL in MODE   is better than a FAIL 
SAFE   whereby th lights go out and stay  off after the power is resumed.

Having worked in automated machine control myself; I fully agree that 
when talking about factory  process and movement control  then a FAIL 
SAFE  method is the only way. The last thing you want to happen is for a 
conveyor belt or pump or press to start up when the power is suddenly  
and unexpectedly  restored. 

Except for  the start surge  if all the lights are left turned on,  
there is little harm in letting them  resume after the power operation.
On the other hand,  configuring the lights to drop out  and stay off 
even when the power resumed  (such a a momentary outage from  for 
example a reclosure in the utulity power during a storm)   is not good 
either. 

Which just goes to show that  it becomes  problematic  when  amateurs 
begin to delve into  sophisticated electrical systems as a DIY project. 
Norm  lives off grid and relies  partly on solar panels  for his 
electrical power.  To me it doesn't make sense to waste electrical 
energy  on a relay  coil that may stay  in one mode for many hours.  For 
such light circuits, a latching  or bi-stable relay makes sense.  For  
motor controls, no way!  I fully agree  that  they pose an unacceptable  
safety risk.

Let the debate rage on. <VBG>

Arild






_______________________________________________
Liveaboard mailing list
[email protected]
To adjust your membership settings over the web 
http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard
To subscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/

To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]

The Mailman Users Guide can be found here 
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html

Reply via email to