Alexander-
Thank you. THAT is the discussion we should be having. I hope everyone
who has had a dog in this fight follows your last link and reads the
whole thing. Here is a sample to get you interested: (Paul Beier's
translation of Piccinni, with the original theorbo poster's comments.)
"when you pluck a string, you touch the string with the highest part of
the flash, and, pushing the string toward the soundboard, you let the
nail escape the two strings, and it sounds very good". that's not all
Piccinini says about nails. He says they must be long enough that they
"surely succeed the flesh," and gives details on how they should be
shaped (the index, middle, and ring should be oval shaped), and even
Beier agrees with all of this (this will be discussed below). Also,
even if what you included was the only thing he says, I don't think
anybody could reasonably argue that he is not describing nails
technique here. Sorry for those who belong to the guitar-allergic
school of the past, but what Piccinini describes, i.e. plucking the
string with the very tip of the flesh (which is under the nail), and
following through with the nail, is exactly that same thing done today
by classical guitarists.
They also discuss Mouton's thumb nail, but the link I provided earlier
gives far better detail. But that thread does have one clear picture
that could shock some of us. :-D
Dan
On 12/12/2013 3:40 PM, Alexander Batov wrote:
The link seems to have got corrupted. Hope it works this time:
[1]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid99709983490349&set=a.14395
7805732236.27163.100003540520662&type=1&theater¬if_t=photo_reply
On 12/12/2013 23:25, Alexander Batov wrote:
Here is a more well-mannered, illustrated (scroll towards the
bottom of
the page) discussion on RH nails, Mouton etc:
[1][2]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid99709983490349&set=a.14
395780
5732236.27163.100003540520662&type=1&theater¬if_t=photo_reply
Alexander
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 09:18:19 -0800
From: Dan Winheld [2][3]<dwinh...@lmi.net>
To: Mayes, Joseph [3][4]<ma...@rowan.edu>, Christopher Wilke
[4][5]<chriswi...@yahoo.com>, Bruno Correia
[5][6]<bruno.l...@gmail.com>,
List LUTELIST [6][7]<lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Thank you also, Chris for your last post. Very enlightening, your
experience of nails with Baroque Lute vs. nails on Classical guitar.
That's the kind of in depth reporting that is needed (and much like
the
re-discovery of lute RH technique in general- thumbs in, out, and
all
the rest) and is one reason why I am still waiting for a good,
accurate
explanation & translation of Piccinni's comments on nails- and
anyone
else's from the time periods that matter- not because I personally
want
or need to use nails, but because I run into other players;
occasionally
students, who need nails for their guitar work but want to do as
well as
they can on lutes and other double course, historically problematic
instruments.
Don't know why this nail business has to be such an emotionally hot
button issue (as it always seems to have been, even just amongst the
guitarists themselves) any more than synthetic vs. historic
stringing,
playing position/location of the right hand, frets, and the myriad
other
trivia- that, taken all together- make such big differences from
historic practice in this era. Can't it be discussed just a tad less
emotional heat? It's just one of a number of fascinating & annoying
details that make this whole early music endeavor so much fun. Keeps
it
interesting, no?
Consider this: a low tension gut strung 11 course French Baroque
lute,
as depicted in Charles Mouton's famous painting & engraving; his
right
hand arched & bent as much as any modern classical guitarist (and
more
than Julian Bream's), right down at the bridge- and we assume no
nails-
but check a good, detailed enlargement of his right thumb in the
engraving- click on and enlarge the right hand area, computer screen
brightened up all the way:
[7][8]http://en.expertissim.com/old-engravings/gerard-edelinck-portr
ait-of-charles-
mouton-joueur-de-luth-francais-o12131333.html
How much different will that sound be, compared to a sensitive,
highly
trained, informed and experienced player who uses nails- (perhaps a
little closer to the rose?) I believe Toyohiko Satoh has released a
CD
where he does indeed (but presumably sans nails) play his historic
lute
just like that, low tension all-gut, RH and all.
Dan
--
References
1.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid99709983490349&set=a.143957
805732236.27163.100003540520662&type=1&theater¬if_t=photo_reply
[9]2.mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
[10]3.mailto:ma...@rowan.edu
[11]4.mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
[12]5.mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
[13]6.mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7.http://en.expertissim.com/old-engravings/gerard-edelinck-portrait-
of-charles-mouton-joueur-de-luth-francais-o12131333.html
To get on or off this list see list information at
[14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid99709983490349&set=a.143957805732236.27163.100003540520662&type=1&theater¬if_t=photo_reply
2. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid99709983490349&set=a.14395780
3. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
4. mailto:ma...@rowan.edu
5. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
6. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
8.
http://en.expertissim.com/old-engravings/gerard-edelinck-portrait-of-charles
9. mailto:2.mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
10. mailto:3.mailto:ma...@rowan.edu
11. mailto:4.mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
12. mailto:5.mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
13. mailto:6.mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
