What I say and what I do are almost always two different things. :) But just because I don't practice what I preach doesn't mean that what I preach is wrong. So I wouldn't call myself a stoic, but a defender of stoicism.
On Mar 23, 11:10 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > Congratulations, you're a stoic. You're in good company...Marcus > Aurelius would agree with you completely. And yes, if someone saws > your leg off without anesthetic, you will most certainly see God. > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:07 AM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Get rid of it all. We're all a bunch of pansies. We need to go back > > to the days when they pulled teeth with pliars. Thats when men were > > MEN. :) > > > On Mar 23, 7:22 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >> What about anesthesia for dental procedures, or surgery? > > >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > > >> > Chris, > >> > I'm very unsympathetic to the marijuana apologists arguments. Their > >> > arguments always appeal to weakness. I'm of the philosophy that the > >> > only good arguments are the arguments that appeal to a position of > >> > strength. If you want a spiritual experience, why do it the easy > >> > way? Its good for the soul to have to work for something like that. > >> > And why would you want drugs to relieve you from pain? Pain is good > >> > for the soul as well. And if you don't stand in the position of > >> > defending drugs from the argument of absence from pain, or abundance > >> > of pleasure, then what argument do you have? > >> > So in sum, I disagree with the aims of drug use. (i.e. avoidance of > >> > pain, excess of pleasure) And even if I agreed with the aims, drugs > >> > don't sufficiently accomplish those aims. They end up doing more harm > >> > than good. > > >> > On Mar 23, 1:50 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> I understand. I thought you were making a judgement of the tribe > >> >> itself. The New Age movement is particularly American, and for the most > >> >> part, abstains from the chemical roots of the religions that it borrows > >> >> many of its philosophies from. It's an interesting contradiction to > >> >> your accurate observation. > > >> >> [ Attached Message ]From:Kierkecraig > >> >> <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds Eye\"" > >> >> <[email protected]>Date:Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:13:11 -0700 > >> >> (PDT)Local:Mon, Mar 23 2009 1:13 pmSubject:[Mind's Eye] Re: Speaking of > >> >> Out of Body Experiences... > > >> >> Chris, > >> >> What I meant by perfect fit for modern america is that we are always > >> >> looking for a quick fix. We Americans don't like to put forth > >> >> effort. I did not mean that physchodelic drugs are not ancient. > > >> >> On Mar 22, 9:43 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > Ayahuasca tea, along with the ritual use of amanita muscaria, is not a > >> >> > modern american ritual at all. These are South American immigrants, > >> >> > Craig. Did you not read the article? This is a religion that has > >> >> > archaeological evidence dating it at least as old as Christianity, > >> >> > perhaps two to three times as old as that. > > >> >> > Nothing modern at all about the use of psycho-actives. If anything, > >> >> > it's a modern idea that you can achieve a "spiritual state" without > >> >> > them. > > >> >> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Kierkecraig > >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > Maybe if you aren't willing to put forth the effort, then you don't > >> >> > > deserve the experience. Sounds like these hallucinogens are a > >> >> > > spiritual experience for the lazy. A perfect fit for modern > >> >> > > america I > >> >> > > guess. > > >> >> > > On Mar 22, 7:10 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > >> >> > > wrote: > >> >> > >> I would posit that there are few people anymore who practice the > >> >> > >> rituals to the degree necessary to self manufacture the amounts of > >> >> > >> DMT necessary to have the "religious experience". Buddhist monks, > >> >> > >> perhaps, and some extreme branches of Catholicism who still > >> >> > >> practice flagellation. For the rest of us, a legitimately altered > >> >> > >> state of reality is not likely to occur without assistance. > > >> >> > >> [ Attached Message ]From:Slip Disc <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds > >> >> > >> Eye\"" <[email protected]>Date:Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:07:12 > >> >> > >> -0700 (PDT)Local:Sun, Mar 22 2009 5:07 pmSubject:[Mind's Eye] Re: > >> >> > >> Speaking of Out of Body Experiences... > > >> >> > >> I guess I'm going to have to take another look at the DMT you > >> >> > >> tossed > >> >> > >> at me on another occasion, you see Chris, I didn't forget! > > >> >> > >> I'm glad that people can have the liberty to practice their faith > >> >> > >> in > >> >> > >> the way they see fit without interference from big brother. > > >> >> > >> The question is, though, why do religions need to use > >> >> > >> hallucinogens if > >> >> > >> there is sufficiency in their spiritual beliefs? > > >> >> > >> Just a thought. > > >> >> > >> On Mar 22, 12:28 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > >> >> > >> wrote:> A Judge in Oregon has ruled that the use of Amazonian > >> >> > >> plants for the > >> >> > >> > purpose of legitimate religious hallucinogenic experience is > >> >> > >> > legal: > > >> >> > >> >http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OR_HALLUCINOGENIC_TEA_OROL-?SI... > > >> >> > >> > The active ingredient for the "Spirit Walk"? 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