There is no guide or book of instructions. <<gruff

Are there not any or do you reject any there are?

I pulled this from the I Die Daily thread back last June. There are
many worthy posts which are worth the read should you want to take the
time or at least read the OP to get the gist of my response and the
reference to Brian Weiss.  Please note the it starts with "I believe"
and contains some "I think" reference.
This is the first post to Molly's OP.  You can gather from it, I would
think, that you are an old soul gruff.

I believe that some people have lived past lives but not all as some
people are Old Souls, ie: child prodigies, brilliant scientists etc.,
while others are New Souls ie: idiots without a clue who are easily
identifiable.   I would not consider reincarnation in the sense that
our soul returns in the form of a different species but contend the
soul returns as another human being.  A human soul does not return as
a cow in my opinion.  I think we retain life experiences within our
soul and would agree with Weiss that life might be occurring
simultaneously on different planes and further that there is a level
at which time is of no consequence.  The concept of old soul and new
soul has been a contentious subject for my wife and I as she is deeply
rooted in Catholicism and therefore won't accept it other than as a
ridiculous notion. However, as a survivor of a two week coma, when
prognosis was death and last rites were issued, I maintain without
reservation that there is definitely a parallel life plane. While
cerebral vegetation was the assessment with short term cerebral
hypoxia being the initial cause of the coma, I had not only achieved
full recovery but retained much of the experience.  Initially random
thrashing of mind states was occurring followed by subconsciousness
travel sometimes culminating in physical representation in another
place. It was during this point that I feel there was no time factor.
At no time during the experience did I feel a disconnect where I could
say I was dead and that total death did indeed take place. As far as
my physical death I could not make any assertion as I was laying still
in the hospital so what I'm referring to is my soul and the
consciousness of it within the coma experience.  I won't go into
extensive explanatory detail but I will have to point out that there
was a point at which I had feared what I perceived as death or an
impending death and experienced panic. Shortly after I did have my two
feet planted firmly on the ground on a hill with trees, where people
were standing and sitting about near a river.  I had not known where I
was but the people did turn to look at me which gave me the impression
that I was actually a person in physical form. I knew that this was
another parallel life plane and I feel it is there right now still but
I only visited and didn't stay.  As everything returned to blackness,
void of anything visible I awoke to a nurse asking me if I knew where
I was and if I knew my name, neither of which did I have an answer
to.  I still do grapple with the idea of whether or not those
experiences were dream state manifestations.  This I don't know but
have been asked, how did I know it wasn't just a dream.  Getting back
to issue, it seems that belief in certain aspects of death may give
credence to what some know as Heaven and the immortality of the soul.
For atheists, pantheists, materialists and rationalists there would be
no question and conversation of such idea would be moot. So what
meaning does death have to us as we are living?  Perhaps it is a
reminder that life is temporary and that we should pay heed to what
lies ahead without paying as much attention to amassing materialistic
treasures over spiritual values.   Is death just a marker between
lives?  Possibly and for me most likely,  no one has ever come back to
tell us anything about it.  Is there a Karma that carries from one
life to the next?  I would think that if the soul retains it's
accumulated properties then it might also retain the aspects of
retribution.  Upon new life in the new physical frame is there a clean
slate with which to develop?   I often wonder why some people are born
into extreme poverty and pain while other live wonderful lives.  While
both will have to commit to death the interim of life seems to have
significance in the fact that maybe there is for them a lesson to be
learned.  I would also have to examine why it is that a person is born
and dies within hours of living if there is any significance to life
between birth and death.  If Weiss believes that what we do in this
life influences our lives to come then I have to wonder what has that
person done within it's few hours of life to influence it's future
life. Can we lay down a prospective for person's future life based on
general observation of the person's current life.  IF so then where
might be Hitler, Dahmer, Saddam and what are they doing in their
future life?  Have they returned already and are they living among us
as we speak?  The question begets more questions which beget even more
as the question surrounding the most mysterious aspects of human life
remains enigmatic; what of death?



On May 15, 1:02 pm, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> Depending on your definition of a soul, yes, Slip, I believe I do
> possess that ethereal quality or quantity of being.  According to many
> religious and philosophical beliefs, the soul is the self-awareness,
> or consciousness, unique to a particular living being, defined as
> being distinct from the body and survives the death of the body.  A
> more secular view might be the spirit or essence of a person usually
> thought to consist of one's thoughts, beliefs, character and
> personality.
>
> In either or any case, I firmly believe I have a soul, though it is
> not something I have always possessed.  It may be something that comes
> into being over a period of time which encompasses a growing awareness
> of life and the interconnectedness of it all.
>
> Thanks for the flowers, as Francis would say.  I certainly hope you
> are correct, but the answer lies in the beyond in that one can only
> know if one has prepared properly after the fact.  There is no guide
> or book of instructions.  But if that is the case, and we miss that
> steak here, I'm sure we will have the opportunity in that beyond.
>
> Kudos are also due to every member of Mind's Eye.  Were it not for the
> discussions and arguments we have indulged here, I might not be where
> I am at the moment and in the future.
>
> On May 14, 8:57 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > One solace I indulge frequently is that my suffering is preparation
> > for what lies beyond, if indeed anything does.  You are aware I'm
> > atheist but that does not preclude -- to my thinking and belief -- a
> > continuation of this consciousness, this sentience, after the
> > conclusion of my time here.   I can only hope I have prepared well.
> > <<gruff
>
> > Ah yes, so you do have a soul!  Your atheism is another subject on a
> > different platform and though associated it is a mechanism all of it's
> > own.
>
> > I would say you are very well prepared and have stored much to be
> > useful later.  It has been a pleasure to know you within this forum
> > format.  Onward!
>
> > On May 14, 9:16 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > "... On May 13, 4:47 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: ..."
>
> > > > Then I would have to conclude that you had in some way found comfort
> > > > in being where you were/are and really have no need to step out of it,
> > > > save for the sake of trying to live up to some implied social value,
> > > > that we are not supposed to be "there" and if we are we should seek
> > > > help.
>
> > > You nailed it.  This was a lesson in human and my own psychology I
> > > learned quite a while back -- that a person, me in this case, can stay
> > > in the misery of their own perceptions because it is a known situation
> > > and therefore to some degree comfortable and safe.   I believe a great
> > > deal of it has to do with the genetic and environmental guilt I
> > > inherited via my jewish and catholic background.   I've always been
> > > generous with everything I possess but have avoided being the
> > > recipient of anyone else's generosity or even their thanks.  Receiving
> > > a gift or being thanked have always made me uncomfortable.
>
> > > But all that aside, which could easily turn into pathetic woe is me
> > > self-pity, I've had an exciting time, been down a lot of paths,
> > > experienced a great deal of life that is not the norm, all of which I
> > > think has given me a unique perspective on the whole thing.  I have a
> > > broad understanding and grasp of this existence which I enjoy in spite
> > > of the apparent and not so apparent degradations to which I subject
> > > myself.  I sport an ego about some of my talents and beat myself over
> > > others lost and wasted.  I do not rush to meet death in spite of my
> > > occasional leanings toward self annihilation but when it comes I think
> > > I'll greet it with willingness.and expectation.
>
> > > > It may be that you should simply view the entirety of the
> > > > experience as being not only acceptable but also advantageous thereby
> > > > allowing for the dissipation of negative feelings.
>
> > > I think to a large degree that is exactly what I do which in turn
> > > allows me to achieve the insights and understanding which a few here
> > > have enjoyed via my comments and thoughts.
>
> > > > There must be
> > > > countless times that you are engaged in a situation where you are
> > > > unaware that your life experience is the basis of your ability to
> > > > facilitate positive change somewhere for someone else.
>
> > > Yes, and at times I am even aware of it which seems to enhance the
> > > negative perception that had I not been burdened by some of my self-
> > > defeating mechanisms I might have done more and better.  Everything
> > > good becomes tainted by that negativity.  I readily see the flaws, the
> > > imperfections, the failures in any successes I've had.  When I write a
> > > piece and it's published, I dwell on the errors I know are present, on
> > > the short-cuts I took, on the failure to do my best.  It doesn't
> > > matter that a piece may be praised by others and that I may be paid
> > > for it, I know what's wrong with it and dwell in that land of negative
> > > nod.
>
> > > I suppose somewhere along the line there may be some benefit accruing
> > > to all this self-loathing, but I'll be damned if I can see it
> > > clearly.  Yet, ironically and absurdly, for much of my middle life
> > > I've also had a strong feeling that somewhere somehow I was destined
> > > for greatness in some form.   This may also have been merely a
> > > compensation mechanism to prevent me from getting too close to a
> > > dangerous edge.
>
> > > > Analogously,
> > > > what would Moses have accomplished if he had not the enriched
> > > > upbringing and suffering of banishment in the desert?  How different
> > > > it would had been if he simply became a drunken fool in his desert
> > > > dwelling constantly reflecting on his "loss" of Egyptian entitlement.
> > > > Instead he utilized the entire experience to move forward with the
> > > > confidence and wisdom he acquired from it.
>
> > > Confidence is something I've not often had in useful quantities and
> > > wisdom is a quality I've only come to possess in small quantities in
> > > old age.   I've never felt like Moses and feel uncomfortable in a
> > > leadership position.  I prefer working behind the scenes, out of sight
> > > and out of mind.  Public acclaim makes me break out in a cold sweat.
> > > But I've often compared myself to Job.
>
> > > > The fleeting moments of wholeness are probably a result of feeling
> > > > uncomfortable being out of the comfort zone, like cold feet moments.
> > > > Sometimes, regardless of the quality, we choose to stay within
> > > > negative areas of familiarity, where we know where we are and what to
> > > > expect.  It is something like being institutionalized for so long that
> > > > life on the outside, though representing the freedom that was dreamed
> > > > about for years, is scary and unpredictable.
>
> > > Exactly.  I've become institutionalized within the prison of my own
> > > self-destructiveness and the freedom of which you speak is very scary
> > > indeed.
>
> > > > Perhaps you have more
> > > > going for you than most considering the freedoms that you have created
> > > > for yourself, the loosed responsibilities, fiscal, social and
> > > > familial. Some that you may have thought had it better are living in
> > > > tent cities without the amenities you are afforded.  Fact is you live
> > > > like royalty compared to the slum dogs. Don't forget the A-1
>
> > > In a very real sense this is absolutely true.  I have gained a lack of
> > > attachment to possessions, a freedom to move about without burdens,
> > > and the ability to turn my back on everything and head down a new path
> > > should the responsibilities get to scary.  And I am well aware that
> > > compared to many -- even most -- in this world, I live in relative
> > > comfort yet the thought provides no satisfaction or sense of
> > > accomplishment.
>
> > > One solace I indulge frequently is that my suffering is preparation
> > > for what lies beyond, if indeed anything does.  You are aware I'm
> > > atheist but that does not preclude -- to my thinking and belief -- a
> > > continuation of this consciousness, this sentience, after the
> > > conclusion of my time here.   I can only hope I have prepared well.
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