from a dualistic perspective, this is so. And yet, there is more...
On Aug 29, 1:39 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> Since the two poles, cynic/believer are of the same stuff, denial of
> either moves one off of the middle way and its associated equipoise.
> Such rejection of consciousness itself can only end in an extreme and
> crystallized state. In this case, both ends being rather fanatical,
> when it comes to such notions of unity, taking up residence within one
> and not the other not only produces a blind view, it shouts volumes
> about the remaining pole lurking under the surface, awaiting to be
> freed.
>
> On Aug 29, 6:52 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I am much more drawn to satire that makes good use of the ironic or
> > absurd. By definition, the cynical is an outlook that holds humanity
> > as selfish and insincere in motive, and I do not agree with this. By
> > definition, it separates us from them, the insincere, and establishes
> > the disenfranchised. I prefer humor that brings us together,
> > especially political humor. Shines the light on what we can do
> > better, and the irony of what we are not.
>
> > On Aug 29, 9:15 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I think you are both right and wrong on this Molly. You have a biting
> > > wit on occasion (I can't remember an unwelcome one). The political
> > > opposition in the UK is now almost entirely satire and increasingly
> > > crude. This and cynicism can be very virtuous, but moral high ground
> > > is quickly infested. I now cry rather than laugh at our political
> > > satire - it's almost as if we are powerless other than through the
> > > weak force of ridicule. Agreements are fine if they are fair;
> > > humbleness is great if it comes from all sides. I'd say, as any true
> > > cynic tends to believe, that we face a very corrupt social reality.
> > > The danger is that such a view can make us so holier-than-thou that we
> > > can justify killing everyone else as 'impure' (the ultimate Wahhabi or
> > > Crusader position). I believe bureaucracy and 'politeness' is now
> > > coming from such a position.
> > > Deconstruction has never been necessary in showing us that 'rational
> > > positions' are much less rational than the speakers lead us to
> > > assume. "Humour" is often the only way to express that the Emperor is
> > > naked, something that should worry us a great deal. Many of us would
> > > enter 'mediation' if it wasn't already skewed to papering over cracks
> > > and already part of the defences of the powerful. The long run has a
> > > pretty bad history as the songs of victors (generally those who
> > > prepared the ground for their triumphs at home while others did the
> > > dirty work). My guess is that the problem is we can't learn the
> > > lessons of humour and ridicule because "we" are already cynically (in
> > > the bad sense) disposed against it and fair play in dialogue.
>
> > > On 29 Aug, 13:44, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > sarcasm, like cynicism, protects, divides and isolates. I don't think
> > > > you need that tag, Don. Your meaning is clear. There are those of us
> > > > that suggest that, in the long run, establishing agreement first makes
> > > > for a happier relationship. Then again, you might not wish to
> > > > consider the long run. Or the effect of sarcasm. This I do not know.
>
> > > > On Aug 29, 5:36 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 7:57
> > > > > AM,[email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Which is another way of saying do wrong by all means, and if caught
> > > > > > say sorry, isn't it?
>
> > > > > > Why that instead of 'Ask permison and never feel the need to say
> > > > > > sorry'?
>
> > > > > > On 28 Aug, 05:05, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >> That's my motto but I'll share it. "Never ask for permission. Do
> > > > > >> what you want and ask for forgiveness later." Words to live by.
>
> > > > > >> dj
>
> > > > > I need to start using some kind of sarcasm tag. Maybe like this ///
> > > > > to indicate when I'm popping off with some sarc. I was kidding. Of
> > > > > course this isn't a motto to live by but it can be useful. If you
> > > > > know the answer will be "no" why ask for permission? Go ahead and
> > > > > paint the house a color you can stand while she's visiting her mother
> > > > > to avoid the sickening peach color she'll choose if you ask her. What
> > > > > you do doesn't need to be wrong, it just might not be what the
> > > > > permission giver would want.
>
> > > > > dj
>
> > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:36 AM, iam
> > > > > >> deheretic<[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >> > My Question
>
> > > > > >> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Darrel Farrel
> > > > > >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> an eye for an eye is fair
>
> > > > > >> > Why do I need to be fair, I think forgiveness is fair and much
> > > > > >> > easier.
> > > > > >> > Allan
>
> > > > > >> >> > Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:27:25 -0700
> > > > > >> >> > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: revenge
> > > > > >> >> > From: [email protected]
> > > > > >> >> > To: [email protected]
>
> > > > > >> >> > All in all I think revenge is a moral and psycological
> > > > > >> >> > deadend.
>
> > > > > >> >> > It may feel good for a while to take vengance, but other than
> > > > > >> >> > that
> > > > > >> >> > little rush of feeling good what does it do in the long term?
>
> > > > > >> >> > On 26 Aug, 05:12, facilitator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > > I think of revenge for variuos reasons from time to time.
> > > > > >> >> > > Usually to
> > > > > >> >> > > correct something or someone when I have been wronged.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > But I am not very clever in that regard and don't carry it
> > > > > >> >> > > out
> > > > > >> >> > > thinking that somehow this "correction to an injustice"
> > > > > >> >> > > will spin out
> > > > > >> >> > > of control and fall back on my head anyway.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > I have chosen to spend my time doing something proactive and
> > > > > >> >> > > constructive instead.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > One of my famous sayings helps me in this regard:
> > > > > >> >> > > "The opposite of love is not hate , it is indifference".
>
> > > > > >> >> > > I become indifferent to the offender. I am almost certain
> > > > > >> >> > > this has to
> > > > > >> >> > > be wrong, but it works for me.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > Still, all in all, I would prefer for the most part to be
> > > > > >> >> > > the hammer
> > > > > >> >> > > rather than the nail!
>
> > > > > >> >> > > On Aug 25, 9:11 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > > > > >> >> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> > > > When I saw you use the word revenge in the other thread
> > > > > >> >> > > > Neil, I got
> > > > > >> >> > > > the full body rush. Ugh, revenge - bad. But then I read
> > > > > >> >> > > > your
> > > > > >> >> > > > amusing
> > > > > >> >> > > > experience and I asked myself if I ever felt this way.
> > > > > >> >> > > > The answer
> > > > > >> >> > > > is
> > > > > >> >> > > > yes.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > > At the end of my first marriage, my soon to be ex husband
> > > > > >> >> > > > had an
> > > > > >> >> > > > affair, and his girlfriend would call the house, let it
> > > > > >> >> > > > ring twice
> > > > > >> >> > > > and
> > > > > >> >> > > > hang up, or hang up if I answered before two rings. This
> > > > > >> >> > > > got my
> > > > > >> >> > > > attention when it began, so I started watching what
> > > > > >> >> > > > became obvious
> > > > > >> >> > > > between them. So I asked them both directly about it,
> > > > > >> >> > > > and they both
> > > > > >> >> > > > denied it. It went on for a bit longer before it
> > > > > >> >> > > > occurred to me
> > > > > >> >> > > > that
> > > > > >> >> > > > I need not suffer the intrusion into my life. I called
> > > > > >> >> > > > her home
> > > > > >> >> > > > (she
> > > > > >> >> > > > also was married with children) every hour for twenty
> > > > > >> >> > > > four - day and
> > > > > >> >> > > > night, for one twenty four hour period, and hung up after
> > > > > >> >> > > > two rings
> > > > > >> >> > > > or
> > > > > >> >> > > > if anyone answered. If my husband heard me doing this
> > > > > >> >> > > > when he was
> > > > > >> >> > > > home at night, he said nothing. Her husband was
> > > > > >> >> > > > obviously not happy
> > > > > >> >> > > > as the night wore on, as evidenced by the tone of his
> > > > > >> >> > > > voice. Lucky
> > > > > >> >> > > > for me, it was prior to caller ID telephones. Well, it
> > > > > >> >> > > > worked for
> > > > > >> >> > > > me. The calls stopped. Nothing was ever mentioned by
> > > > > >> >> > > > anyone until
> > > > > >> >> > > > one day a couple of years and after my divorce I got a
> > > > > >> >> > > > call from
> > > > > >> >> > > > her.
> > > > > >> >> > > > She had gone into AA and wanted to make amends. I
> > > > > >> >> > > > listened to her,
> > > > > >> >> > > > encouraged her to continue with her program, and kindly
> > > > > >> >> > > > let her know
> > > > > >> >> > > > she was not welcome to call me again.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > > This, by the definitions above, would be revenge,
> > > > > >> >> > > > although for me at
> > > > > >> >> > > > the time, it was the only way I could think of to get the
> > > > > >> >> > > > calls to
> > > > > >> >> > > > stop. I wasn't thinking of getting even, but stopping
> > > > > >> >> > > > the calls. I
> > > > > >> >> > > > wasn't delighted in this poor families frustration, but
> > > > > >> >> > > > glad the
> > > > > >> >> > > > calls
> > > > > >> >> > > > stopped.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > > On Aug 25, 7:33 pm, archytas <[email protected]>
> > > > > >> >> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> > > > > It's not a good idea to let a chimp see you give it an
> > > > > >> >> > > > > injection -
> > > > > >> >> > > > > it
> > > > > >> >> > > > > will take revenge. My guess amongst humans is that
> > > > > >> >> > > > > there is so
> > > > > >> >> > > > > little
> > > > > >> >> > > > > justice that revenge gets taken in all kinds of
> > > > > >> >> > > > > inappropriate
> > > > > >> >> > > > > ways.
> > > > > >> >> > > > > The idiot wife beater may well be really pissed off
> > > > > >> >> > > > > over other
> > > > > >> >> > > > > matters
> > > > > >> >> > > > > and so on. Young Iranian boys off to get killed by
> > > > > >> >> > > > > Iraqi gas wore
> > > > > >> >> > > > > socks marked 'Death to Israel'. From the Baltic to the
> > > > > >> >> > > > > Balkans
> > > > > >> >> > > > > one
> > > > > >> >> > > > > set has taken revenge against another for over a
> > > > > >> >> > > > > thousand years.
> > > > > >> >> > > > > In
> > > > > >> >> > > > > Albania, the men have to stay indoors whilst the women
> > > > > >> >> > > > > toil in the
> > > > > >> >> > > > > fields for fear of vendetta (no doubt a cunning sexist
> > > > > >> >> > > > > use of
> > > > > >> >> > > > > 'revenge').
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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