"...And yet, there is more... " = MB Well of course! Perhaps you missed my premise? Oh, well.....
On Aug 29, 10:46 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > from a dualistic perspective, this is so. And yet, there is more... > > On Aug 29, 1:39 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Since the two poles, cynic/believer are of the same stuff, denial of > > either moves one off of the middle way and its associated equipoise. > > Such rejection of consciousness itself can only end in an extreme and > > crystallized state. In this case, both ends being rather fanatical, > > when it comes to such notions of unity, taking up residence within one > > and not the other not only produces a blind view, it shouts volumes > > about the remaining pole lurking under the surface, awaiting to be > > freed. > > > On Aug 29, 6:52 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I am much more drawn to satire that makes good use of the ironic or > > > absurd. By definition, the cynical is an outlook that holds humanity > > > as selfish and insincere in motive, and I do not agree with this. By > > > definition, it separates us from them, the insincere, and establishes > > > the disenfranchised. I prefer humor that brings us together, > > > especially political humor. Shines the light on what we can do > > > better, and the irony of what we are not. > > > > On Aug 29, 9:15 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think you are both right and wrong on this Molly. You have a biting > > > > wit on occasion (I can't remember an unwelcome one). The political > > > > opposition in the UK is now almost entirely satire and increasingly > > > > crude. This and cynicism can be very virtuous, but moral high ground > > > > is quickly infested. I now cry rather than laugh at our political > > > > satire - it's almost as if we are powerless other than through the > > > > weak force of ridicule. Agreements are fine if they are fair; > > > > humbleness is great if it comes from all sides. I'd say, as any true > > > > cynic tends to believe, that we face a very corrupt social reality. > > > > The danger is that such a view can make us so holier-than-thou that we > > > > can justify killing everyone else as 'impure' (the ultimate Wahhabi or > > > > Crusader position). I believe bureaucracy and 'politeness' is now > > > > coming from such a position. > > > > Deconstruction has never been necessary in showing us that 'rational > > > > positions' are much less rational than the speakers lead us to > > > > assume. "Humour" is often the only way to express that the Emperor is > > > > naked, something that should worry us a great deal. Many of us would > > > > enter 'mediation' if it wasn't already skewed to papering over cracks > > > > and already part of the defences of the powerful. The long run has a > > > > pretty bad history as the songs of victors (generally those who > > > > prepared the ground for their triumphs at home while others did the > > > > dirty work). My guess is that the problem is we can't learn the > > > > lessons of humour and ridicule because "we" are already cynically (in > > > > the bad sense) disposed against it and fair play in dialogue. > > > > > On 29 Aug, 13:44, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > sarcasm, like cynicism, protects, divides and isolates. I don't think > > > > > you need that tag, Don. Your meaning is clear. There are those of us > > > > > that suggest that, in the long run, establishing agreement first makes > > > > > for a happier relationship. Then again, you might not wish to > > > > > consider the long run. Or the effect of sarcasm. This I do not know. > > > > > > On Aug 29, 5:36 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 7:57 > > > > > > AM,[email protected]<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Which is another way of saying do wrong by all means, and if > > > > > > > caught > > > > > > > say sorry, isn't it? > > > > > > > > Why that instead of 'Ask permison and never feel the need to say > > > > > > > sorry'? > > > > > > > > On 28 Aug, 05:05, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> That's my motto but I'll share it. "Never ask for permission. > > > > > > >> Do > > > > > > >> what you want and ask for forgiveness later." Words to live by. > > > > > > > >> dj > > > > > > > I need to start using some kind of sarcasm tag. Maybe like this > > > > > > /// > > > > > > to indicate when I'm popping off with some sarc. I was kidding. Of > > > > > > course this isn't a motto to live by but it can be useful. If you > > > > > > know the answer will be "no" why ask for permission? Go ahead and > > > > > > paint the house a color you can stand while she's visiting her > > > > > > mother > > > > > > to avoid the sickening peach color she'll choose if you ask her. > > > > > > What > > > > > > you do doesn't need to be wrong, it just might not be what the > > > > > > permission giver would want. > > > > > > > dj > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:36 AM, iam > > > > > > >> deheretic<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > My Question > > > > > > > >> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Darrel Farrel > > > > > > >> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> an eye for an eye is fair > > > > > > > >> > Why do I need to be fair, I think forgiveness is fair and much > > > > > > >> > easier. > > > > > > >> > Allan > > > > > > > >> >> > Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:27:25 -0700 > > > > > > >> >> > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: revenge > > > > > > >> >> > From: [email protected] > > > > > > >> >> > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > >> >> > All in all I think revenge is a moral and psycological > > > > > > >> >> > deadend. > > > > > > > >> >> > It may feel good for a while to take vengance, but other > > > > > > >> >> > than that > > > > > > >> >> > little rush of feeling good what does it do in the long > > > > > > >> >> > term? > > > > > > > >> >> > On 26 Aug, 05:12, facilitator <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> > > I think of revenge for variuos reasons from time to time. > > > > > > >> >> > > Usually to > > > > > > >> >> > > correct something or someone when I have been wronged. > > > > > > > >> >> > > But I am not very clever in that regard and don't carry > > > > > > >> >> > > it out > > > > > > >> >> > > thinking that somehow this "correction to an injustice" > > > > > > >> >> > > will spin out > > > > > > >> >> > > of control and fall back on my head anyway. > > > > > > > >> >> > > I have chosen to spend my time doing something proactive > > > > > > >> >> > > and > > > > > > >> >> > > constructive instead. > > > > > > > >> >> > > One of my famous sayings helps me in this regard: > > > > > > >> >> > > "The opposite of love is not hate , it is indifference". > > > > > > > >> >> > > I become indifferent to the offender. I am almost > > > > > > >> >> > > certain this has to > > > > > > >> >> > > be wrong, but it works for me. > > > > > > > >> >> > > Still, all in all, I would prefer for the most part to be > > > > > > >> >> > > the hammer > > > > > > >> >> > > rather than the nail! > > > > > > > >> >> > > On Aug 25, 9:11 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> > > > > > > >> >> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> > > > When I saw you use the word revenge in the other thread > > > > > > >> >> > > > Neil, I got > > > > > > >> >> > > > the full body rush. Ugh, revenge - bad. But then I > > > > > > >> >> > > > read your > > > > > > >> >> > > > amusing > > > > > > >> >> > > > experience and I asked myself if I ever felt this way. > > > > > > >> >> > > > The answer > > > > > > >> >> > > > is > > > > > > >> >> > > > yes. > > > > > > > >> >> > > > At the end of my first marriage, my soon to be ex > > > > > > >> >> > > > husband had an > > > > > > >> >> > > > affair, and his girlfriend would call the house, let it > > > > > > >> >> > > > ring twice > > > > > > >> >> > > > and > > > > > > >> >> > > > hang up, or hang up if I answered before two rings. > > > > > > >> >> > > > This got my > > > > > > >> >> > > > attention when it began, so I started watching what > > > > > > >> >> > > > became obvious > > > > > > >> >> > > > between them. So I asked them both directly about it, > > > > > > >> >> > > > and they both > > > > > > >> >> > > > denied it. It went on for a bit longer before it > > > > > > >> >> > > > occurred to me > > > > > > >> >> > > > that > > > > > > >> >> > > > I need not suffer the intrusion into my life. I called > > > > > > >> >> > > > her home > > > > > > >> >> > > > (she > > > > > > >> >> > > > also was married with children) every hour for twenty > > > > > > >> >> > > > four - day and > > > > > > >> >> > > > night, for one twenty four hour period, and hung up > > > > > > >> >> > > > after two rings > > > > > > >> >> > > > or > > > > > > >> >> > > > if anyone answered. If my husband heard me doing this > > > > > > >> >> > > > when he was > > > > > > >> >> > > > home at night, he said nothing. Her husband was > > > > > > >> >> > > > obviously not happy > > > > > > >> >> > > > as the night wore on, as evidenced by the tone of his > > > > > > >> >> > > > voice. Lucky > > > > > > >> >> > > > for me, it was prior to caller ID telephones. Well, it > > > > > > >> >> > > > worked for > > > > > > >> >> > > > me. The calls stopped. Nothing was ever mentioned by > > > > > > >> >> > > > anyone until > > > > > > >> >> > > > one day a couple of years and after my divorce I got a > > > > > > >> >> > > > call from > > > > > > >> >> > > > her. > > > > > > >> >> > > > She had gone into AA and wanted to make amends. I > > > > > > >> >> > > > listened to her, > > > > > > >> >> > > > encouraged her to continue with her program, and kindly > > > > > > >> >> > > > let her know > > > > > > >> >> > > > she was not welcome to call me again. > > > > > > > >> >> > > > This, by the definitions above, would be revenge, > > > > > > >> >> > > > although for me at > > > > > > >> >> > > > the time, it was the only way I could think of to get > > > > > > >> >> > > > the calls to > > > > > > >> >> > > > stop. I wasn't thinking of getting even, but stopping > > > > > > >> >> > > > the calls. I > > > > > > >> >> > > > wasn't delighted in this poor families frustration, but > > > > > > >> >> > > > glad the > > > > > > >> >> > > > calls > > > > > > >> >> > > > stopped. > > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Aug 25, 7:33 pm, archytas <[email protected]> > > > > > > >> >> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > It's not a good idea to let a chimp see you give it > > > > > > >> >> > > > > an injection - > > > > > > >> >> > > > > it > > > > > > >> >> > > > > will take revenge. My guess amongst humans is that > > > > > > >> >> > > > > there is so > > > > > > >> >> > > > > little > > > > > > >> >> > > > > justice that revenge gets taken in all kinds of > > > > > > >> >> > > > > inappropriate > > > > > > >> >> > > > > ways. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > The idiot wife beater may well be really pissed off > > > > > > >> >> > > > > over other > > > > > > >> >> > > > > matters > > > > > > >> >> > > > > and so on. Young Iranian boys off to get killed by > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Iraqi gas wore > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
