I think I know what you mean Vam; yet there remains a need to recognise reality more fully in public dialogue.
On 8 Mar, 13:32, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > what I found most interesting about this practice of keeping the mind > clear of compulsive, obsessive or distracting though is that the > resulting quiet mind becomes a habit, and my immediate surroundings > are more peaceful, the flow of experience less disruptive. It truly > does set the tone inside and out. > > On Mar 8, 1:11 am, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 8, 5:12 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I would guess many people are now seeing through the faking Molly, but > > > this isn't enough to move the social strategy on. > > > Perhaps you'll have reasons to relent on this dark thought in time, > > quite as you've done on the faking front ! > > > I believe, we have a responsibility, a duty, not to load the world > > about us with our negative and desperate thoughts. One can have them, > > as we all do, but must have learnt through life not to allow more > > space or importance to them within ourself, to the exclusion of > > others. Ideally, we should be capable ( yes, it is a capability ! ) of > > wiping off our frowns and despair, our melancholy and defeatist > > urgings, before stepping out of our bed / room / house. It's a tough > > job, where most decent and righteous people fail, inadvertently > > strengthening the hands of the indecent, the illiberal and the unjust. > > > All's well, even our despair, defeats and losses ! Let me paraphrase > > a Buddha quote : Your work is to discover your world and then, with > > all your heart, give yourself to it. > > > Nothing can be more practical than that. No space or time for > > arguments. Only the realisation ... yes, our work is well etched and > > cut out ... and the extent of execution. > > > > On 4 Mar, 10:01, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > fake honesty! Oh lovely paradox! > > > > > On Mar 4, 1:06 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I think we need the honesty route too Molly. I simply fear it's too > > > > > easy to fake and that we need some way to take on 'dirty hands' > > > > > assumptions in the open. > > > > > > On 4 Mar, 01:13, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > "As for honesty, it depends on ones > > > > > > culture but generally we repress honesty through etiquette and > > > > > > education and dishonesty in varying degrees becomes acceptable. I do > > > > > > understand Molly thoughts about family keeping one straight but > > > > > > often > > > > > > this backfires" > > > > > > > I am not sure if dishonesty is culturally acceptable, but there is a > > > > > > great deal of it going on between people in society. I think we do > > > > > > ourselves and the world a disfavor when we rationalize our own > > > > > > dishonesty by saying that others do it so why not me. My experience > > > > > > is, that in direct relationships of every kind, people appreciate > > > > > > honesty and tire easily of dishonesty. And dishonesty with self > > > > > > only > > > > > > creates limitation, so what we think is easing our pain or making > > > > > > the > > > > > > situation easier, is really only keeping us from what we think might > > > > > > be uncomfortable or difficult, and in the long run, prolongs the > > > > > > agony. It may be difficult and painful to take an honest look at > > > > > > ourselves, but moving through fear is the only way to dissipate it > > > > > > and > > > > > > ease the pain and suffering. Can't avoid or deny it. There are ways > > > > > > to > > > > > > communicate with loved ones with honesty that allows for open doors > > > > > > and open hearts, the way to reconciliation. Do we really want to > > > > > > perpetuate the misery in the world, or can we have the courage to > > > > > > insist on honesty with ourselves and others, and show a better way? > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 9:35 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > As soon as my head hit the pillow I remembered the Cold War and > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > impact on the Middle East and Africa.//Will check back as I just > > > > > > > printed a coupon for 50% off and I feel rich! A new non-stick > > > > > > > muffin > > > > > > > tin and farewell to muffin liners! Yipee! > > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 1:37 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > One can put much of the blame on French and British mapmakers > > > > > > > > carving > > > > > > > > up the Ottoman Empire after WWI- they showed little regard for > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > natural boundaries of tribes and warlords. Also, the importance > > > > > > > > of oil > > > > > > > > was an enormous factor- for instance, I feel Kuwait was created > > > > > > > > as an > > > > > > > > ace in the hole since Iraq could be intractable.But one could > > > > > > > > also go > > > > > > > > back to Napoleon's expedition to Egypt or the Crusades or the > > > > > > > > split of > > > > > > > > Christianity between the West and the Byzantine Empire. At any > > > > > > > > rate a > > > > > > > > balance of power failed in Europe as well as the modern Middle > > > > > > > > East.// > > > > > > > > Am discovering ancient China as I hadn't known much about it- > > > > > > > > am up to > > > > > > > > the Sung Dynasty but the Mongols are right around the corner! I > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > have to read it twice as it's hard to keep everything straight > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > this survey of civilization includes a great many examples of > > > > > > > > the arts > > > > > > > > and religious influences.//You may also want to think about the > > > > > > > > inequities between rich and poor nations or even within nations > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > cause of conflict and misery.//As for honesty, it depends on > > > > > > > > ones > > > > > > > > culture but generally we repress honesty through etiquette and > > > > > > > > education and dishonesty in varying degrees becomes acceptable. > > > > > > > > I do > > > > > > > > understand Molly thoughts about family keeping one straight but > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > this backfires hence sayings about keeping one's own counsel or > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > danger of what can't be unsaid, etc.//Back to Eden- first > > > > > > > > disobedience, then a lie and later a murder- not much of start > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > us! :-) > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 7:40 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking back to an earlier post of yours earlier Slip > > > > > > > > > - the > > > > > > > > > 'Muslim threat'. I see 5 American Jihadis have been arrested > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Pakistan. We had a 'Dispatches' (Channel 4 here) documentary > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > IFE (Islamic Forum Europe). Very disturbing stuff - > > > > > > > > > infiltration of > > > > > > > > > the Labour Party and a whole wad of rather nasty, corrupt > > > > > > > > > activities. > > > > > > > > > The good thing was that Muslims came forward to deplore what > > > > > > > > > they are > > > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > I would go a long way myself down the spiritual route to > > > > > > > > > 'light' if I > > > > > > > > > could feel more comfortable that the experiences would not be > > > > > > > > > manipulated. The idea of meeting God or the Blue Rabbit and > > > > > > > > > thus > > > > > > > > > living under such authority does not appeal. Neither does > > > > > > > > > tradition > > > > > > > > > or just blowing that away altogether in some anarchist binge > > > > > > > > > - yet it > > > > > > > > > does seem that we could get away from the worst of what we > > > > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > > together to do in ways that are so traditional all of history > > > > > > > > > can seem > > > > > > > > > to be about the quagmire. > > > > > > > > > > There's a point in Hegel (somewhere - he's truly awful) where > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > declares we now have history. Though I doubt history has any > > > > > > > > > meaning > > > > > > > > > at all in terms of laws, I am struck that a genuine > > > > > > > > > understanding of > > > > > > > > > it 'ready-to-hand' is always missing. One only has to think > > > > > > > > > of posts > > > > > > > > > in here where a few bits of stuff supporting a particular > > > > > > > > > view are > > > > > > > > > thrown in - perhaps on a wider scale we have the global > > > > > > > > > warming > > > > > > > > > debacle and the lack of public explanation of why we did Iraq > > > > > > > > > or are > > > > > > > > > in Afghanistan. We end up asserting opinion that can all be > > > > > > > > > criticised rather than establishing facts. > > > > > > > > > In academic terms, one can always check the internal validity > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > argument, and/or raise external critique that has different > > > > > > > > > root > > > > > > > > > values or metaphors. The great bits of science tend to be > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > someone or group bridge the areas seemingly incompatible. > > > > > > > > > Einstein > > > > > > > > > finds himself with Maxwell's equations and yet contradictory > > > > > > > > > experimental evidence, so fixes the kinematics underlying > > > > > > > > > both. Wiles > > > > > > > > > bridges otherwise incompatible forms of equations to get at > > > > > > > > > Fermat's > > > > > > > > > last theorem. We can look at diabetes as a disease, but then > > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > Dolphins use it as an advantage because they can switch it on > > > > > > > > > and off. > > > > > > > > > > One can see this in material Orn often suggests, certainly in > > > > > > > > > Vam and > > > > > > > > > Molly - to me it's more familiar as Wittgensteinian > > > > > > > > > deconstruction - > > > > > > > > > looking for similarities deep in apparently opposing > > > > > > > > > arguments. What > > > > > > > > > I have trouble with is the assertion of another 'Hegelian > > > > > > > > > moment' in > > > > > > > > > which to know anything we have to know all or, weirdly, > > > > > > > > > nothing other > > > > > > > > > than to be in a supposition-less and pre-suppositional state, > > > > > > > > > or 'in > > > > > > > > > the light'. It all starts to feel like 'you'll be all right > > > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > > > we've washed your brain' stuff. It starts to make me feel > > > > > > > > > the way > > > > > > > > > politicians do when they say god will judge them. The often > > > > > > > > > claim to > > > > > > > > > have met 'Blue Rabbits' to which we have no access - trusty > > > > > > > > > secret > > > > > > > > > service types and all. This is a general problem with > > > > > > > > > introspectively > > > > > > > > > achieved states. They are not offered to our access, but > > > > > > > > > used as > > > > > > > > > 'authority'. > > > > > > > > > > It's not the short skirts mate - but the tall, athletic > > > > > > > > > women. Sue > > > > > > > > > used to play a mean game. > > > > > > > > > > I saw some guy say that no one would have guessed that > > > > > > > > > 'dealing with > > > > > > > > > Iraq' would have led to the emergence of Iran as a regional > > > > > > > > > power. I > > > > > > > > > thought we put Saddam in power and armed him to curb Iran? I > > > > > > > > > heard > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
