“…rather than the self itself (whatever that is!).” – fran Herein lies ‘the rub’…so few have any idea at all let alone a desire to know what ‘self’ is.
On Mar 12, 9:04 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > It's a far more common phenomenon than that, Pat, and it's something > we are all inclined to. The world of behavioural psychological > development is very complex, but quite a lot about the way we learn to > deal with intersubjectivity as children has to do with patterns we > experience, strategies we learn, etc. An honest appraisal of the way > we function, particularly in interpersonal relationships, show all > kinds of tendencies in us to set up "drama-frameworks" in > relationshipship situations, because they give us (frequently the > illusion of) some kind of control over what's happening. And then we > subsequently shake our heads and wonder, "why does this kind of shit > always happen to me?" > > On an ordinary level, there's nothing wrong with any of this - we are, > after all, primates, with exceedingly complex social worlds, and > setting up dramatic contexts to help us to deal with issues is > something we do all the time and can be quite useful. The danger is > always a tendency to addiction to one's own psychodramas (as Molly > points out). Seen from a slightly different angle, this is another > expression of what classical psychology refers to under the narcissism > label, whereby one should be careful to understand that narcissism is > an obsession with a particular image of oneself, rather than the self > itself (whatever that is!). > > Francis > > On 12 Mrz., 16:07, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 9 Mar, 13:40, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I know quite a few people that create their own psychodramas for the > > > rush of having them and can't seem to take a step back and look at > > > their own role in creating the problems. > > > Perhaps they suffer from a lesser form of Munchausen Syndrome, the > > idea being to draw attention to themselves so that others will care > > for them, as it would appear that they, themselves, don't (or can't > > bring themselves to) care enough about themselves to do as you say. > > > >I did not mean to suggest > > > that we deny the worst we might do with manners. From my view, the > > > worst and the best of us must be faced and owned full on and if there > > > are problems in this, it is likely due to our own fear. Interestingly > > > enough, only be facing our fears with complete honesty of who we are, > > > will the fears fade away. Nothing anyone else can do will quell this > > > for us. If we perceive problems that can't be solved, we don't have > > > all the information or are afraid to find it. At some point, it is > > > what it is without denial. > > > > If we give credence to our critics, we also give credence to > > > accomplishments. At some point, the only way to be honest with > > > ourselves is to let both go, and act with integrity according to the > > > dictates of the moment. We can always do this, and it will resolve > > > any problem. Until we create more by constantly looking for them. > > > > On Mar 9, 12:28 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Could not agree more Molly. Our manners have some purpose in denying > > > > the worst we might do, but they leave us with unresolved problems and > > > > not much means to resolve them. > > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:48, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > having fun with your fantasies > > > > > > On Mar 8, 12:07 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > *whistling* no, I am not posting certain secret emails sent to me, > > > > > > no, > > > > > > I am a good girl *whistling* > > > > > > > On 8 Mrz., 15:06, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes! I think that letting go of anger is important, this we can > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > without expressing it as the source of anger is usually our own > > > > > > > view. > > > > > > > If we are feeling judgmental, the need to diminish or right the > > > > > > > wrongs > > > > > > > of the world, it is our own view creating the anger, as it is > > > > > > > placing > > > > > > > us in conflict with our experience. > > > > > > > > Yet anger is a very real human emotion, and comes to the > > > > > > > forefront of > > > > > > > our experience as a means for us to confront our fears. this is > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > different than the ill tempered person who tends to go off > > > > > > > regularly. > > > > > > > this is the exquisite moment where we are face to face with our > > > > > > > deepest fears (and we may or may not recognize it) and we are > > > > > > > given an > > > > > > > opportunity to take our stand (this often brings up the warrior > > > > > > > in us) > > > > > > > and feel the I AM of a statement that reconciles injustice and > > > > > > > justice, hate and love and whatever opposition we are facing. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > feeling of anger gives rise to courage and ethical action. And > > > > > > > if we > > > > > > > are unable to reconcile the opposites and find love and > > > > > > > forgiveness > > > > > > > when the anger subsides, we will probably be faced with this > > > > > > > essential > > > > > > > experience again, given another invitation to face and extinguish > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > fear, and it may be louder and more critical each time it comes to > > > > > > > call. > > > > > > > > Yes, I hear you Neil. Anger can be essential. Most often, I > > > > > > > think, > > > > > > > it is misused. > > > > > > > > On Mar 7, 7:31 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think there is an honest place where we may do something > > > > > > > > useful with > > > > > > > > anger Molly. > > > > > > > > > On 5 Mar, 17:13, Doris Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes if your family and your love ones are not doing well it > > > > > > > > > is hard to shine > > > > > > > > > your light, but if you can laugh and your love ones and keep > > > > > > > > > and hold still > > > > > > > > > a joy and find still there is good things,(You are still > > > > > > > > > alive)....depression,poverty,hunger,coldness,homeless,family > > > > > > > > > spread apart > > > > > > > > > and seprated, ill health,mock,not believed, rejected. And > > > > > > > > > yet the song goes > > > > > > > > > on. dj and if even then you still give what you can. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Doris Briscoe > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I almost forgot about this song. It is not good to stand on > > > > > > > > > > a planet > > > > > > > > > > along. I like it that a person can start All over. dj > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:33 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> A beautiful and brave post- thank you, Francis. > > > > > > > > > > >> It is interesting to think of my mother and her peers who > > > > > > > > > >> were so > > > > > > > > > >> tight-lipped about this subject and "airing the family > > > > > > > > > >> dirty linens"- > > > > > > > > > >> she went shopping and shopping and shopping! They > > > > > > > > > >> eventually paid for > > > > > > > > > >> their repression with ill-health. > > > > > > > > > > >> The sacrament of Confession wasn't such a bad idea to > > > > > > > > > >> unload ones sins > > > > > > > > > >> and begin anew. > > > > > > > > > > >> I have dabbled only to find the sentence(s) that propelled > > > > > > > > > >> action or > > > > > > > > > >> change. I dislike any rx and alcohol took a dislike to me. > > > > > > > > > > >> Modern life has enough leisure to allow us the luxury/hell > > > > > > > > > >> of self- > > > > > > > > > >> analysis. I think we live in a self-help glut of books and > > > > > > > > > >> experts. > > > > > > > > > >> Advice is cheap. > > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 3, 12:11 pm, frantheman > > > > > > > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > Starting with Lehrer's article and going on with some > > > > > > > > > >> > excellent > > > > > > > > > >> > thoughtful contributions here, this thread has the > > > > > > > > > >> > potential to become > > > > > > > > > >> > something very good. > > > > > > > > > > >> > I believe that a danger in dealing with the subject of > > > > > > > > > >> > "depression" is > > > > > > > > > >> > that there are many different modes of melancholy, many > > > > > > > > > >> > different > > > > > > > > > >> > causes and, consequently. many different ways of > > > > > > > > > >> > treating/dealing with/ > > > > > > > > > >> > living with/learning from/transcending it. > > > > > > > > > > >> > There's evidence for neuro-biochemical foundations for > > > > > > > > > >> > particular > > > > > > > > > >> > depressive states, having generally (much simplified > > > > > > > > > >> > here!) to do with > > > > > > > > > >> > the neurotransmitter serotonin. This is the level at > > > > > > > > > >> > which many of the > > > > > > > > > >> > current pharmaceutical "treatments" kick in. The > > > > > > > > > >> > question which can > > > > > > > > > >> > often be asked is whether a chemical club ameliorates a > > > > > > > > > >> > particular > > > > > > > > > >> > symptomatic which is actually a signal for something > > > > > > > > > >> > else. In a > > > > > > > > > >> > society which believes in quick fixes, the immediate > > > > > > > > > >> > recourse to pills > > > > > > > > > >> > is prevelant and, I suspect, frequently shortsighted. > > > > > > > > > > >> > That said, I know that chronic, deep depression is > > > > > > > > > >> > something awful and > > > > > > > > > >> > - ultimately - pathological. In such cases, medication > > > > > > > > > >> > may be > > > > > > > > > >> > absolutely necessary. The inability to have any > > > > > > > > > >> > experience of joy in > > > > > > > > > >> > life over a longer period is for me the best definition > > > > > > > > > >> > of hell I can > > > > > > > > > >> > come up with (and I don't need any supernatural > > > > > > > > > >> > categories for it). To > > > > > > > > > >> > experience one's life as continuously completely dreary > > > > > > > > > >> > and futile, to > > > > > > > > > >> > feel that the effort of just getting out of bed at some > > > > > > > > > >> > stage of the > > > > > > > > > >> > day takes more energy than one has available, to see > > > > > > > > > >> > one's own > > > > > > > > > >> > existence as a uselessly complicating factor for others > > > > > > > > > >> > so that the > > > > > > > > > >> > whole world would be better if one simply ceased to > > > > > > > > > >> > exist ... I've > > > > > > > > > >> > been there. I never want to go back there. I've known > > > > > > > > > >> > many others who > > > > > > > > > >> > have suffered terribly, and one of my best friends > > > > > > > > > >> > killed himself > > > > > > > > > >> > because - after many years, and all sorts of treatments > > > > > > > > > >> > and therapies > > > > > > > > > >> > - he just couldn't stand it any more. > > > > > > > > > > >> > I came out of that particular horror - with some > > > > > > > > > >> > pharmaceutical help, > > > > > > > > > >> > but more fundamentally because I got the professional > > > > > > > > > >> > support > > > > > > > > > >> > necessary to look at the contradictions within myself, > > > > > > > > > >> > to realise how > > > > > > > > > >> > I had self-limited the options and possibilites in fact > > > > > > > > > >> > open to me > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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