It's a far more common phenomenon than that, Pat, and it's something we are all inclined to. The world of behavioural psychological development is very complex, but quite a lot about the way we learn to deal with intersubjectivity as children has to do with patterns we experience, strategies we learn, etc. An honest appraisal of the way we function, particularly in interpersonal relationships, show all kinds of tendencies in us to set up "drama-frameworks" in relationshipship situations, because they give us (frequently the illusion of) some kind of control over what's happening. And then we subsequently shake our heads and wonder, "why does this kind of shit always happen to me?"
On an ordinary level, there's nothing wrong with any of this - we are, after all, primates, with exceedingly complex social worlds, and setting up dramatic contexts to help us to deal with issues is something we do all the time and can be quite useful. The danger is always a tendency to addiction to one's own psychodramas (as Molly points out). Seen from a slightly different angle, this is another expression of what classical psychology refers to under the narcissism label, whereby one should be careful to understand that narcissism is an obsession with a particular image of oneself, rather than the self itself (whatever that is!). Francis On 12 Mrz., 16:07, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 9 Mar, 13:40, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I know quite a few people that create their own psychodramas for the > > rush of having them and can't seem to take a step back and look at > > their own role in creating the problems. > > Perhaps they suffer from a lesser form of Munchausen Syndrome, the > idea being to draw attention to themselves so that others will care > for them, as it would appear that they, themselves, don't (or can't > bring themselves to) care enough about themselves to do as you say. > > > > >I did not mean to suggest > > that we deny the worst we might do with manners. From my view, the > > worst and the best of us must be faced and owned full on and if there > > are problems in this, it is likely due to our own fear. Interestingly > > enough, only be facing our fears with complete honesty of who we are, > > will the fears fade away. Nothing anyone else can do will quell this > > for us. If we perceive problems that can't be solved, we don't have > > all the information or are afraid to find it. At some point, it is > > what it is without denial. > > > If we give credence to our critics, we also give credence to > > accomplishments. At some point, the only way to be honest with > > ourselves is to let both go, and act with integrity according to the > > dictates of the moment. We can always do this, and it will resolve > > any problem. Until we create more by constantly looking for them. > > > On Mar 9, 12:28 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Could not agree more Molly. Our manners have some purpose in denying > > > the worst we might do, but they leave us with unresolved problems and > > > not much means to resolve them. > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:48, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > having fun with your fantasies > > > > > On Mar 8, 12:07 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > *whistling* no, I am not posting certain secret emails sent to me, no, > > > > > I am a good girl *whistling* > > > > > > On 8 Mrz., 15:06, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes! I think that letting go of anger is important, this we can do > > > > > > without expressing it as the source of anger is usually our own > > > > > > view. > > > > > > If we are feeling judgmental, the need to diminish or right the > > > > > > wrongs > > > > > > of the world, it is our own view creating the anger, as it is > > > > > > placing > > > > > > us in conflict with our experience. > > > > > > > Yet anger is a very real human emotion, and comes to the forefront > > > > > > of > > > > > > our experience as a means for us to confront our fears. this is > > > > > > very > > > > > > different than the ill tempered person who tends to go off > > > > > > regularly. > > > > > > this is the exquisite moment where we are face to face with our > > > > > > deepest fears (and we may or may not recognize it) and we are given > > > > > > an > > > > > > opportunity to take our stand (this often brings up the warrior in > > > > > > us) > > > > > > and feel the I AM of a statement that reconciles injustice and > > > > > > justice, hate and love and whatever opposition we are facing. This > > > > > > feeling of anger gives rise to courage and ethical action. And if > > > > > > we > > > > > > are unable to reconcile the opposites and find love and forgiveness > > > > > > when the anger subsides, we will probably be faced with this > > > > > > essential > > > > > > experience again, given another invitation to face and extinguish > > > > > > this > > > > > > fear, and it may be louder and more critical each time it comes to > > > > > > call. > > > > > > > Yes, I hear you Neil. Anger can be essential. Most often, I think, > > > > > > it is misused. > > > > > > > On Mar 7, 7:31 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I think there is an honest place where we may do something useful > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > anger Molly. > > > > > > > > On 5 Mar, 17:13, Doris Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes if your family and your love ones are not doing well it is > > > > > > > > hard to shine > > > > > > > > your light, but if you can laugh and your love ones and keep > > > > > > > > and hold still > > > > > > > > a joy and find still there is good things,(You are still > > > > > > > > alive)....depression,poverty,hunger,coldness,homeless,family > > > > > > > > spread apart > > > > > > > > and seprated, ill health,mock,not believed, rejected. And yet > > > > > > > > the song goes > > > > > > > > on. dj and if even then you still give what you can. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Doris Briscoe > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I almost forgot about this song. It is not good to stand on a > > > > > > > > > planet > > > > > > > > > along. I like it that a person can start All over. dj > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:33 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> A beautiful and brave post- thank you, Francis. > > > > > > > > > >> It is interesting to think of my mother and her peers who > > > > > > > > >> were so > > > > > > > > >> tight-lipped about this subject and "airing the family dirty > > > > > > > > >> linens"- > > > > > > > > >> she went shopping and shopping and shopping! They eventually > > > > > > > > >> paid for > > > > > > > > >> their repression with ill-health. > > > > > > > > > >> The sacrament of Confession wasn't such a bad idea to unload > > > > > > > > >> ones sins > > > > > > > > >> and begin anew. > > > > > > > > > >> I have dabbled only to find the sentence(s) that propelled > > > > > > > > >> action or > > > > > > > > >> change. I dislike any rx and alcohol took a dislike to me. > > > > > > > > > >> Modern life has enough leisure to allow us the luxury/hell > > > > > > > > >> of self- > > > > > > > > >> analysis. I think we live in a self-help glut of books and > > > > > > > > >> experts. > > > > > > > > >> Advice is cheap. > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 3, 12:11 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > Starting with Lehrer's article and going on with some > > > > > > > > >> > excellent > > > > > > > > >> > thoughtful contributions here, this thread has the > > > > > > > > >> > potential to become > > > > > > > > >> > something very good. > > > > > > > > > >> > I believe that a danger in dealing with the subject of > > > > > > > > >> > "depression" is > > > > > > > > >> > that there are many different modes of melancholy, many > > > > > > > > >> > different > > > > > > > > >> > causes and, consequently. many different ways of > > > > > > > > >> > treating/dealing with/ > > > > > > > > >> > living with/learning from/transcending it. > > > > > > > > > >> > There's evidence for neuro-biochemical foundations for > > > > > > > > >> > particular > > > > > > > > >> > depressive states, having generally (much simplified > > > > > > > > >> > here!) to do with > > > > > > > > >> > the neurotransmitter serotonin. This is the level at which > > > > > > > > >> > many of the > > > > > > > > >> > current pharmaceutical "treatments" kick in. The question > > > > > > > > >> > which can > > > > > > > > >> > often be asked is whether a chemical club ameliorates a > > > > > > > > >> > particular > > > > > > > > >> > symptomatic which is actually a signal for something else. > > > > > > > > >> > In a > > > > > > > > >> > society which believes in quick fixes, the immediate > > > > > > > > >> > recourse to pills > > > > > > > > >> > is prevelant and, I suspect, frequently shortsighted. > > > > > > > > > >> > That said, I know that chronic, deep depression is > > > > > > > > >> > something awful and > > > > > > > > >> > - ultimately - pathological. In such cases, medication may > > > > > > > > >> > be > > > > > > > > >> > absolutely necessary. The inability to have any experience > > > > > > > > >> > of joy in > > > > > > > > >> > life over a longer period is for me the best definition of > > > > > > > > >> > hell I can > > > > > > > > >> > come up with (and I don't need any supernatural categories > > > > > > > > >> > for it). To > > > > > > > > >> > experience one's life as continuously completely dreary > > > > > > > > >> > and futile, to > > > > > > > > >> > feel that the effort of just getting out of bed at some > > > > > > > > >> > stage of the > > > > > > > > >> > day takes more energy than one has available, to see one's > > > > > > > > >> > own > > > > > > > > >> > existence as a uselessly complicating factor for others so > > > > > > > > >> > that the > > > > > > > > >> > whole world would be better if one simply ceased to exist > > > > > > > > >> > ... I've > > > > > > > > >> > been there. I never want to go back there. I've known many > > > > > > > > >> > others who > > > > > > > > >> > have suffered terribly, and one of my best friends killed > > > > > > > > >> > himself > > > > > > > > >> > because - after many years, and all sorts of treatments > > > > > > > > >> > and therapies > > > > > > > > >> > - he just couldn't stand it any more. > > > > > > > > > >> > I came out of that particular horror - with some > > > > > > > > >> > pharmaceutical help, > > > > > > > > >> > but more fundamentally because I got the professional > > > > > > > > >> > support > > > > > > > > >> > necessary to look at the contradictions within myself, to > > > > > > > > >> > realise how > > > > > > > > >> > I had self-limited the options and possibilites in fact > > > > > > > > >> > open to me > > > > > > > > >> > and, in my particular case, because I learned to > > > > > > > > >> > recognise, accept, > > > > > > > > >> > embrace and integrate some darker parts of my personality. > > > > > > > > >> > So for me, > > > > > > > > >> > in the end, through all the suffering and pain, it was an > > > > > > > > >> > occasion of > > > > > > > > >> > growth. > > > > > > > > > >> > As in so many things, in the case of fundamental > > > > > > > > >> > mental/psychological > > > > > > > > >> > states, we are constantly tempted to look for simple > > > > > > > > >> > definitions and > > > > > > > > >> > easy remedies. But, as Oscar Wilde once observed, "the > > > > > > > > >> > truth is rarely > > > > > > > > >> > pure and never simple." > > > > > > > > > >> > Francis > > > > > > > > > >> > On 3 Mrz., 00:01, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > One of the most challenging aspects of studying > > > > > > > > >> > > depression is the vast > > > > > > > > >> > > amount of contradiction in the literature. Virtually > > > > > > > > >> > > every claim comes > > > > > > > > >> > > with a contradictory claim, which is also supported by > > > > > > > > >> > > evidence. I > > > > > > > > >> > > tend to believe this confusion will persist until our > > > > > > > > >> > > definitions of > > > > > > > > >> > > depression become more precise, so that intense sadness > > > > > > > > >> > > and > > > > > > > > >> > > paralyzing, chronic, suicidal despair are no longer > > > > > > > > >> > > lumped together in > > > > > > > > >> > > the same psychiatric category. (Lehrer) > > > > > > > > > >> > > I've been 'depressed' since middle teenage, with some > > > > > > > > >> > > bouts of > > > > > > > > >> > > clinical depression, partly associated with trauma. > > > > > > > > >> > > I've had some > > > > > > > > >> > > periods I'd call madness, and though I have never done > > > > > > > > >> > > anything > > > > > > > > >> > > 'serious' have found myself out of control > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
