On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Ahh interesting Don, and I see you see my point. > > You say you can't force him, and this is the issue I am talking > about. > > If you had been able to force him, then two things I must ask. > > Do you find it moraly correct to be 'in charge' of all of your > childrens thoughts and actions, that is is it better to make of your > kids slaves to your own ways, or give them the freedom to think and > act and indeed perhaps make their own mistakes and thus learn about > actions and repercusions? >
You allow independence in small ways. Do you want oatmeal or Wheaties for breakfast? Blueberries or bananas? Bike ride or run? You have to set expectations and have consequences if he doesn't meet them. Like no ps3 or tv or computer time. Once he gets used to brushing his teeth and folding his clothes and putting them away it becomes less important to stand over him with a whip. Teaching them how to deal with people. Other kids and adults because obviously you don't treat other kids the same as you would an adult. Would that actualy eleviate you of blame or put more blame on your > shoulders when your boy misbehaves? > Misbehavior must be met with immediate consequences. An explanation may be in order to clarify why it's important they act a certain way. I think it's important for the kid to understand you're not just being a jerk there's a reason. I believe the responsibility is the parent's whether or not they are taking an active effort to mold the child. If they are trying I'm more inclined to cut them some slack when they screw up. It means whatever they've been doing isn't working and it's time to try something else. The question is "Who do you want to raise your child?" They will get that raising from someone else if you don't do it. A gang leader? A neighbor? An older bro or sis? Father Flanagan with the boy band fixation? > > There are also two words you use that I wish to addrress. > > 'Leagaly' and 'reflection' > > These two words tell me that although you may feel that his faults are > a reflection of your peranting skills, you also realise that at some > stage you become not responsible for his actions. > Once the boy moves out you lose a great deal of control. With the loss of control you lose some responsibility. This is very hard on some parents. Empty Nesters. Others can't kick the brats out fast enough. My feeling is it's the laissez faire parents that deserve the most censor for a delinquent scoff-law. > > This I think can be said to be true of all perants, I know I feel that > way. However dispite your best attempts, and without force can say a > 16 year old really balmes his own bad behaviour on his parents, and > should they take the blame? > > I say no to this. > > Part of the drilling is personal responsibility. They should understand the ultimate responsibility for their failure or success comes from within THEM. We as parents are going to make mistakes. Forgive them their mistakes and be honest with them about your own and be ready to change your tactics at the drop of a hat. Not all kids are the same; what works for one may not work for the other. It's the hardest job in the world and probably the most unappreciated. It'd be easier if I had one of those remote control monkey shocker collars. "Where'd he go?" Zapp! "Ow!!!" "Hey, I thought I told you to stay out of the kitchen!" Zaapzzzz...buzzzz. *smoke and charred flesh smell* -jk dj > > On 6 Apr, 13:57, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Interesting question on the father's responsibility to the son. My > thoughts > > are yes, the father is ultimately responsible for his child's actions > right > > up until his son is a legal adult. Of course, legally this isn't so but > > morally I think it is. I see my son's failures as a reflection of my > own. > > Why didn't I teach him to control his anger better? Why didn't I punish > him > > more harshly to teach him consequences before the law did? Why didn't I > > have more patience with him and spend more time with him to mold him into > a > > better human being? His shortcomings are mine as well. Only magnified. > > > > I can't force him to do anything but I could have put more time and > effort > > into making sure he understood how I felt and why I want him to act a > > certain way. I'm retroactively trying that now and it's a hard slog; let > me > > tell you. It's best if you get them when they're young. They're much > > easier to program. > > > > dj > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yo Fidds. > > > > > Did I say that? Nope I don't think I did say that at all matey. > > > > > Is that how you took my actual words? > > > > > Remind me where you get such Ideas Fidds? > > > > > Looking at your words I can only assume I made some comment along the > > > lines of 'evil exists as a consequence of God granting us free will'. > > > Probably we where mulling ove that old chestnut, Why would a loving > > > God allow evil? I probably said something along the lines of what I > > > have typed above here, and I may have additionaly said something like > > > 'man does evil, and this is a free choice of mankind' > > > > > Although I can't really remember now. > > > > > Fidds, would you say that the father who fails to clamp down on his > > > unruley son, and instead allows his son to make the mistakes that he > > > will and thus face the consequences of his actions can be blammed for > > > the misdeeds of his son? > > > > > Or put another way. Is the father who refuses to make a slave of his > > > son and instead alllows his son to 'think' for himself, then > > > blamewhorthy if his son turns out to be a little shit? > > > > > As to the rest, rubbish I'm afraid my man. Say what you want to say > > > about God, it don't bother me, make the mistaken assumption that all > > > of your harsh words towards the Christain concept of God matter, I'm > > > not Christian. > > > > > As to my ridiculous idea, what do you mean? Morality is all about > > > doing the right or the wrong thing, when engaged in a debate about > > > morality, then we must talk about both. Any fool realises that > > > morality is subjective, and as such may be viewed as black and white, > > > or several shades of grey by many people. Some of whom will swear > > > that what you see as white is in effect black, so what you are getting > > > on about I have no idea. > > > > > On 28 Mar, 00:20, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I've been terribly busy lately. > > > > > > An interesting moment happened lately. A woman that I ran logistics > on > > > > for her escape from Palestine insisted on thanking me... I hope that > > > > never happens again... > > > > She didn't speak English and her translator ( provided by the sponsor > > > > I'd arranged here as well as get her trunk space out of palestine) > was > > > > almost fawning... ecckkk > > > > I much prefer my charity to be unknown to it's recipients... > > > > She escaped islam in Palestine and I'm very glad to help. Rather than > > > > be slaughtered for "dishonouring" her daddy by being raped by her > > > > daddy and her brothers (yes that still happens daily in islamic > > > > countries) she chose to leave and I helped organise her escape. Two > > > > people I knew were killed in the operation, one because he was an > > > > apostate and the other for being with him. Yes, both are a crime > > > > punishable by death according to islam. > > > > > > I asked whether or not she would remain true to life and love,c > > > > forgoing the cult of murder and death that I helped her escape. She > > > > attempted to adjust a head covering that no longer hid her beautiful > > > > hair. Looking sheepish, she responded that : "No matter how I may > miss > > > > what I had [family], I can actually look myself in the mirror without > > > > bruises." > > > > > > This may seem silly to some of you, but please -just once in a while- > > > > put yourself in the place of these women that enjoy 'around the > clock' > > > > physical, emotional, and mental abuse. No woman deserves islam. > > > > > > To lee: > > > > I find such a fault in your idea that evil need exist for free choice > > > > to exist... > > > > > > So, according to you, A man need be able to rape in order to choose > > > > love? > > > > > > Your god (i draw this from your comments) HAD to create evil in order > > > > to give us free will. > > > > > > That's a really sick and disgusting concept. > > > > > > Your god: " here people! Eat this delicious and poisonously deadly > > > > chocolate cake!... or ... you know... you could have this little > > > > tasteless wafer of good...." > > > > > > Any other loving parent: "here's an apple, an orange, a cookie, or > > > > leftovers... johnnie! get away from the poisoned rat-trap!" > > > > > > Your concept is based on a ridiculous idea that there is only good > vs. > > > > evil, and that any choice must be between the two. If your god > > > > existed, he could have given us such a variety of choice and > > > > experience that it would boggle a human mind... without "evil" > > > > entering the equation. Evil is a human concept and so is the silly > god- > > > > myth. We have the capacity for being nice and for not being nice. No > > > > god needed. > > > > > > My children have the free will to choose between oranges and apples > > > > every single day, that is free choice. It is only a sick little > > > > Canaanite separatist movement's god from around 300 b.c.e. that says > > > > each child must choose between eternal damnation and slavery to their > > > > daddy. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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