Yes I don't think I could agree more if I tried to Don. On 7 Apr, 14:40, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ahh interesting Don, and I see you see my point. > > > You say you can't force him, and this is the issue I am talking > > about. > > > If you had been able to force him, then two things I must ask. > > > Do you find it moraly correct to be 'in charge' of all of your > > childrens thoughts and actions, that is is it better to make of your > > kids slaves to your own ways, or give them the freedom to think and > > act and indeed perhaps make their own mistakes and thus learn about > > actions and repercusions? > > You allow independence in small ways. Do you want oatmeal or Wheaties for > breakfast? Blueberries or bananas? Bike ride or run? You have to set > expectations and have consequences if he doesn't meet them. Like no ps3 or > tv or computer time. Once he gets used to brushing his teeth and folding > his clothes and putting them away it becomes less important to stand over > him with a whip. Teaching them how to deal with people. Other kids and > adults because obviously you don't treat other kids the same as you would an > adult. > > Would that actualy eleviate you of blame or put more blame on your > > > shoulders when your boy misbehaves? > > Misbehavior must be met with immediate consequences. An explanation may be > in order to clarify why it's important they act a certain way. I think it's > important for the kid to understand you're not just being a jerk there's a > reason. I believe the responsibility is the parent's whether or not they > are taking an active effort to mold the child. If they are trying I'm more > inclined to cut them some slack when they screw up. It means whatever > they've been doing isn't working and it's time to try something else. The > question is "Who do you want to raise your child?" They will get that > raising from someone else if you don't do it. A gang leader? A neighbor? > An older bro or sis? Father Flanagan with the boy band fixation? > > > > > There are also two words you use that I wish to addrress. > > > 'Leagaly' and 'reflection' > > > These two words tell me that although you may feel that his faults are > > a reflection of your peranting skills, you also realise that at some > > stage you become not responsible for his actions. > > Once the boy moves out you lose a great deal of control. With the loss of > control you lose some responsibility. This is very hard on some parents. > Empty Nesters. Others can't kick the brats out fast enough. My feeling is > it's the laissez faire parents that deserve the most censor for a delinquent > scoff-law. > > > > > This I think can be said to be true of all perants, I know I feel that > > way. However dispite your best attempts, and without force can say a > > 16 year old really balmes his own bad behaviour on his parents, and > > should they take the blame? > > > I say no to this. > > > Part of the drilling is personal responsibility. They should understand > > the ultimate responsibility for their failure or success comes from within > THEM. We as parents are going to make mistakes. Forgive them their > mistakes and be honest with them about your own and be ready to change your > tactics at the drop of a hat. Not all kids are the same; what works for one > may not work for the other. It's the hardest job in the world and probably > the most unappreciated. > > It'd be easier if I had one of those remote control monkey shocker collars. > "Where'd he go?" Zapp! "Ow!!!" "Hey, I thought I told you to stay out of > the kitchen!" Zaapzzzz...buzzzz. *smoke and charred flesh smell* -jk > > dj > > > > > > > On 6 Apr, 13:57, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Interesting question on the father's responsibility to the son. My > > thoughts > > > are yes, the father is ultimately responsible for his child's actions > > right > > > up until his son is a legal adult. Of course, legally this isn't so but > > > morally I think it is. I see my son's failures as a reflection of my > > own. > > > Why didn't I teach him to control his anger better? Why didn't I punish > > him > > > more harshly to teach him consequences before the law did? Why didn't I > > > have more patience with him and spend more time with him to mold him into > > a > > > better human being? His shortcomings are mine as well. Only magnified. > > > > I can't force him to do anything but I could have put more time and > > effort > > > into making sure he understood how I felt and why I want him to act a > > > certain way. I'm retroactively trying that now and it's a hard slog; let > > me > > > tell you. It's best if you get them when they're young. They're much > > > easier to program. > > > > dj > > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yo Fidds. > > > > > Did I say that? Nope I don't think I did say that at all matey. > > > > > Is that how you took my actual words? > > > > > Remind me where you get such Ideas Fidds? > > > > > Looking at your words I can only assume I made some comment along the > > > > lines of 'evil exists as a consequence of God granting us free will'. > > > > Probably we where mulling ove that old chestnut, Why would a loving > > > > God allow evil? I probably said something along the lines of what I > > > > have typed above here, and I may have additionaly said something like > > > > 'man does evil, and this is a free choice of mankind' > > > > > Although I can't really remember now. > > > > > Fidds, would you say that the father who fails to clamp down on his > > > > unruley son, and instead allows his son to make the mistakes that he > > > > will and thus face the consequences of his actions can be blammed for > > > > the misdeeds of his son? > > > > > Or put another way. Is the father who refuses to make a slave of his > > > > son and instead alllows his son to 'think' for himself, then > > > > blamewhorthy if his son turns out to be a little shit? > > > > > As to the rest, rubbish I'm afraid my man. Say what you want to say > > > > about God, it don't bother me, make the mistaken assumption that all > > > > of your harsh words towards the Christain concept of God matter, I'm > > > > not Christian. > > > > > As to my ridiculous idea, what do you mean? Morality is all about > > > > doing the right or the wrong thing, when engaged in a debate about > > > > morality, then we must talk about both. Any fool realises that > > > > morality is subjective, and as such may be viewed as black and white, > > > > or several shades of grey by many people. Some of whom will swear > > > > that what you see as white is in effect black, so what you are getting > > > > on about I have no idea. > > > > > On 28 Mar, 00:20, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I've been terribly busy lately. > > > > > > An interesting moment happened lately. A woman that I ran logistics > > on > > > > > for her escape from Palestine insisted on thanking me... I hope that > > > > > never happens again... > > > > > She didn't speak English and her translator ( provided by the sponsor > > > > > I'd arranged here as well as get her trunk space out of palestine) > > was > > > > > almost fawning... ecckkk > > > > > I much prefer my charity to be unknown to it's recipients... > > > > > She escaped islam in Palestine and I'm very glad to help. Rather than > > > > > be slaughtered for "dishonouring" her daddy by being raped by her > > > > > daddy and her brothers (yes that still happens daily in islamic > > > > > countries) she chose to leave and I helped organise her escape. Two > > > > > people I knew were killed in the operation, one because he was an > > > > > apostate and the other for being with him. Yes, both are a crime > > > > > punishable by death according to islam. > > > > > > I asked whether or not she would remain true to life and love,c > > > > > forgoing the cult of murder and death that I helped her escape. She > > > > > attempted to adjust a head covering that no longer hid her beautiful > > > > > hair. Looking sheepish, she responded that : "No matter how I may > > miss > > > > > what I had [family], I can actually look myself in the mirror without > > > > > bruises." > > > > > > This may seem silly to some of you, but please -just once in a while- > > > > > put yourself in the place of these women that enjoy 'around the > > clock' > > > > > physical, emotional, and mental abuse. No woman deserves islam. > > > > > > To lee: > > > > > I find such a fault in your idea that evil need exist for free choice > > > > > to exist... > > > > > > So, according to you, A man need be able to rape in order to choose > > > > > love? > > > > > > Your god (i draw this from your comments) HAD to create evil in order > > > > > to give us free will. > > > > > > That's a really sick and disgusting concept. > > > > > > Your god: " here people! Eat this delicious and poisonously deadly > > > > > chocolate cake!... or ... you know... you could have this little > > > > > tasteless wafer of good...." > > > > > > Any other loving parent: "here's an apple, an orange, a cookie, or > > > > > leftovers... johnnie! get away from the poisoned rat-trap!" > > > > > > Your concept is based on a ridiculous idea that there is only good > > vs. > > > > > evil, and that any choice must be between the two. If your god > > > > > existed, he could have given us such a variety of choice and > > > > > experience that it would boggle a human mind... without "evil" > > > > > entering the equation. Evil is a human concept and so is the silly > > god- > > > > > myth. We have the capacity for being nice and for not being nice. No > > > > > god needed. > > > > > > My children have the free will to choose between oranges and apples > > > > > every single day, that is free choice. It is only a sick little > > > > > Canaanite separatist movement's god from around 300 b.c.e. that says > > > > > each child must choose between eternal damnation and slavery to their > > > > > daddy. > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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