Na, Allan, you're running in circles. You are still exchanging words rather than ideas.
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:15 PM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > RP I really do object to anyones beliefs, all though I do have trouble with > fundamentalism. what i see you saying is the same thing again and again and > again and again. yes you have changed the words but you have said exactly > the same thing. I love pushing fundamentalist buttons. There is nothing > wrong with being a skeptic and that can be a good thing. > > I do not think at any time I have ever given a paranoid point of view and > if you belief is the illusion you want to pursue have fun whether I think > it is stupid is irrelevant, it is your beliefs > > My belief in God is not based off what others have written and then my > interpretation of those beliefs. I seriously doubt that you could present > anything that would change my beliefs. but I am willing to hear what you > have to say. Francis of Assisi once said it is better to understand than be > understood. > > When I prod you to expand your thought you just simply say the same thing. > Now I read some material that was fascinating so I am willing to listen but > I am tired of listing to your illusions or is that concept of it. > Allan > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:59 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> When you start learning in your childhood you start with the >> alphabets and then progress to words and further but that doesn't make >> the alphabets irrelevant. In your quest for knowledge you first learn >> what is Brahman and then you go and dissect his creation. What I have >> been saying is not exactly what is written in Hindu religious texts >> but my own interpretation of Truth and if you take it with a grain of >> salt you are well advised as I myself am a sceptic by nature and don't >> easily accept what the scriptures and other people say. I believe that >> a person should think logically and not accept paranoid beliefs >> because whatever a man's viewpoint is easily coloured by paranoid >> occurrences and taking them to be true. There is so much in our belief >> system which is amounting to superstition and I only exhort others >> against such stupidity. There is God I believe and what He is like I >> beg to differ from others and if I call creation an illusion you >> cannot call me that as in your opinion everyone is an individual soul >> and will last till eternity. Everyone to his beliefs , no matter >> however founded , and if I seem to be ignorant to you that is no loss >> to me. >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:08 PM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Illusion known as RP As I read what you have written and in your self >> > realization it sounds like you are the equal of Brahman, It is no sense >> > discussing anything because you are all knowing. When my nephew married >> a >> > Hindi girl I decided i need to read the Veges they are very interesting >> but >> > i also noticed that those boys knew ow to make up one heck of a batch of >> > kick-a-poo juice. (No insult ash) so I take what is written with a grain >> of >> > salt, and there are whole oceans full of it. >> > >> > If you are a follower of Brahman you are a very small minority. I know >> for >> > certain that religious beliefs were never meant to be stagnant because >> > he,she,it or what ever is a living self reveling being and "when you >> think >> > you know it all, there is more." >> > Allan >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:32 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> First you have to admit whether there is only one Spirit or many >> >> spirits ; if there are many spirits then though they are begot by one >> >> God , yet they are separate from one another ; if there is only one >> >> spirit then the entire creation is an illusion , including the >> >> so-called souls , and thus perishable. In that case only God or Self >> >> is and the individual selves are just reflections or bubbles and will >> >> disappear on death. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:46 PM, [email protected] >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Hey RP. >> >> > >> >> > Or...... >> >> > >> >> > Just as the creation can be said to be the body of God, then all >> >> > spirit is the spirit of God. >> >> > >> >> > If it is true that God created matter from the spirt of God, then all >> >> > matter contians the spirit of God. If it is also true that God >> >> > created man in Gods image(whatever the hell that means) then it the >> >> > spirit of a human is indistinguishable from the spirit of God. >> >> > >> >> > This my freind is where the illusion of duality occours. We think we >> >> > are seperate from God, I would ask how can we be if it is also true >> >> > that God permates the creation? >> >> > >> >> > Is there even one iota of matter or spirt that does not contain God? >> >> > >> >> > On Jan 27, 2:38 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Don't you see that if the whole creation is the body of God that we >> as >> >> >> part of this body cannot be the spirit of God , and thus all of us >> are >> >> >> mortals and it is the spirit that is God . In other words we as part >> >> >> of the body of God must bow before the Spirit which is God. Again we >> >> >> as part of the body will be turned to ashes whereas the Spirit which >> >> >> is God will remain as it is unborn , eternal and indestructible. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:58 PM, [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > Yet earlier you claimed that such liberation cannot come whilst >> still >> >> >> > alive. How can one understand, or attain salvation through >> >> >> > understanding when the power to understand is no more? >> >> >> >> >> >> > I put instead this way. >> >> >> >> >> >> > We are not seperate from God, this is impossible as God is all, >> god >> >> >> > is >> >> >> > pervasive throughout the creation, there exists not one iota of >> >> >> > matter >> >> >> > nor of spirit that is not of God. In a very real way God created >> the >> >> >> > creation out of the spirt of God. That is before there existed >> any >> >> >> > matter, there was only God in spirit. God uttered Om(if that is >> your >> >> >> > beliife) or said 'let there be light'(if that is your belife) or >> in >> >> >> > some manner created out of the spirt (or intelegance) of God. >> >> >> > Literaly then the whole of creation can be said to be the 'body' >> of >> >> >> > God. >> >> >> >> >> >> > The trick then is remebering, or realising this fundemantal truth, >> >> >> > there is no duality, we are not seperate from God. The bliss you >> >> >> > talk >> >> >> > of is realisation of this, and so God is attained, or more >> properly, >> >> >> > the truth(sat) is remembered. As we may say Sat Sri Akaal! God >> is >> >> >> > the objective truth. >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Jan 25, 3:31 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> When a person realizes that he is just a figment of God's >> >> >> >> imagination >> >> >> >> and that Brahman alone IS then he attains to salvation , >> liberation >> >> >> >> of >> >> >> >> the soul from duality to a state of non-duality , unending and >> >> >> >> unbreakable bliss. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:06 AM, iam deheretic < >> [email protected]> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > RP you must be awful fearful of death. and you are talking in >> >> >> >> > circles >> >> >> >> > trying to sound like you understand some thing but to me you >> sound >> >> >> >> > confused >> >> >> >> > and lost and searching for salvation, Sorry RP I fall short on >> >> >> >> > just what >> >> >> >> > this salvation thing is. To simplify it for you RP When you >> begin >> >> >> >> > to realize >> >> >> >> > you are part of Brahman and because of the simple fact there is >> an >> >> >> >> > infinite >> >> >> >> > connection,, now all you have to learn is to be a kinder >> gentler >> >> >> >> > person >> >> >> >> > learning to love others as Brahman loves you, Simple yes, but >> it >> >> >> >> > take a life >> >> >> >> > time to perfect. >> >> >> >> > Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:17 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> For those to whom the idea of death is fearful it is death to >> >> >> >> >> them , >> >> >> >> >> but those who recognising the inevitability of death and being >> >> >> >> >> unattached to the various bonds of life see that they will >> merge >> >> >> >> >> into >> >> >> >> >> the One God , attain to the supreme bliss that is Brahman. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:36 PM, iam deheretic >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > Hmm I have read part of it . some what interesting and if >> you >> >> >> >> >> > have >> >> >> >> >> > nothing >> >> >> >> >> > else it could be totally fascinating I like work but it >> means >> >> >> >> >> > little >> >> >> >> >> > and I >> >> >> >> >> > can often times see the purpose, reading what you say work >> >> >> >> >> > without >> >> >> >> >> > attachment. you make it sound difficult really is it as you >> >> >> >> >> > want it to >> >> >> >> >> > be >> >> >> >> >> > ,, sounds more like an self fulfilling prophecy personally I >> >> >> >> >> > like work >> >> >> >> >> > simply because I enjoy working >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Yes you often reiterate old teachers , but does that mean >> you >> >> >> >> >> > understand >> >> >> >> >> > what they are actually saying? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > RP the purpose and function is to get to know God and that >> >> >> >> >> > applies to >> >> >> >> >> > every >> >> >> >> >> > one, is it going to happen? The entirety of your being both >> >> >> >> >> > body and >> >> >> >> >> > soul is >> >> >> >> >> > totally contained with in God (no matter what name you want >> to >> >> >> >> >> > call >> >> >> >> >> > him.) >> >> >> >> >> > the other is to do his will for you and for each person it >> is >> >> >> >> >> > different. By >> >> >> >> >> > responding to the world around you in reality you are >> >> >> >> >> > responding to God >> >> >> >> >> > the >> >> >> >> >> > creator.These request of God are often times very quiet and >> >> >> >> >> > subtle.If >> >> >> >> >> > you >> >> >> >> >> > don't respond well then you just simple don't. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > You tell me RP to open my eyes and accept the certainty of >> >> >> >> >> > death and >> >> >> >> >> > salvation. Do you even know what death is and what salvation >> >> >> >> >> > is? >> >> >> >> >> > Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 5:08 AM, RP Singh <[email protected] >> > >> >> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> When a person loses wealth or name he becomes depressed >> >> >> >> >> >> whereas a >> >> >> >> >> >> person who has attained to the calm of self-mastery remains >> >> >> >> >> >> cool and >> >> >> >> >> >> composed as he has ever a spirit of detachment from all >> >> >> >> >> >> worldly >> >> >> >> >> >> things. But that doesn't mean that he becomes a zombie as >> he >> >> >> >> >> >> acts and >> >> >> >> >> >> behaves normally , doing all necessary work and making >> efforts >> >> >> >> >> >> without >> >> >> >> >> >> the attachment associated with such work. This view has >> been >> >> >> >> >> >> put forth >> >> >> >> >> >> by many great teachers and I am only reiterating it --- >> read >> >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> >> bhagwadgita and you may find something of what I am saying >> >> >> >> >> >> clearly >> >> >> >> >> >> enunciated there. People go in search of the elusive self >> as >> >> >> >> >> >> if it >> >> >> >> >> >> were somewhere underneath wraps , whereas the truth is it >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> right >> >> >> >> >> >> there before you and you fail to see it. >> >> >> >> >> >> The Self is that Nothing of which scientist speak from >> which >> >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> >> universe has emanated and to which it will go---and if you >> >> >> >> >> >> think that >> >> >> >> >> >> you will be able to grasp it within your hand , you have >> lot >> >> >> >> >> >> to learn. >> >> >> >> >> >> You ask me to learn but all that you speak of has been >> >> >> >> >> >> gathering dust >> >> >> >> >> >> in books and folklore , why don't you just open your eyes >> and >> >> >> >> >> >> accept >> >> >> >> >> >> the certainty of death and salvation. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Ash <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hope I don't get in the way here RP but I was waiting for >> >> >> >> >> >> > Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> > before >> >> >> >> >> >> > butting in. At first I found this troubling and not >> purely >> >> >> >> >> >> > on the >> >> >> >> >> >> > basis >> >> >> >> >> >> > of >> >> >> >> >> >> > Individuality, but that there is a separation between >> things >> >> >> >> >> >> > such >> >> >> >> >> >> > that >> >> >> >> >> >> > we >> >> >> >> >> >> > are striving for our own nullification in a process of >> >> >> >> >> >> > spiritual >> >> >> >> >> >> > division >> >> >> >> >> >> > then multiplication, while at the same time we are >> speaking >> >> >> >> >> >> > of an >> >> >> >> >> >> > eternal >> >> >> >> >> >> > and infinite wellspring. It may be that this is the >> greatest >> >> >> >> >> >> > height >> >> >> >> >> >> > that >> >> >> >> >> >> > any >> >> >> >> >> >> > teacher will speak of or has attained and it may indeed >> be >> >> >> >> >> >> > The truth, >> >> >> >> >> >> > however it may also be a misleading truth if we accept it >> as >> >> >> >> >> >> > the only >> >> >> >> >> >> > destination. The definition of self-realization may also >> be >> >> >> >> >> >> > a >> >> >> >> >> >> > half-truth, >> >> >> >> >> >> > depending on how you define self-mastery. If realization >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> > a mere >> >> >> >> >> >> > perceptual trick in the grand scheme compared to God, it >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> > just one >> >> >> >> >> >> > step of >> >> >> >> >> >> > the ladder, of which there may be an infinite supply (and >> >> >> >> >> >> > all of that >> >> >> >> >> >> > may >> >> >> >> >> >> > fall within another mastery). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I would much prefer to walk my path for a very long time, >> >> >> >> >> >> > wherever it >> >> >> >> >> >> > may >> >> >> >> >> >> > lead, through samsara or hell and put a foot in many >> >> >> >> >> >> > dimensions of >> >> >> >> >> >> > existence, merely to explore and discover. Heaven and >> hell >> >> >> >> >> >> > I'd flip >> >> >> >> >> >> > upside >> >> >> >> >> >> > down and leave no stone unturned to see where and what we >> >> >> >> >> >> > are and >> >> >> >> >> >> > what >> >> >> >> >> >> > possibilities may be. Noone can say where that would take >> >> >> >> >> >> > us, or what >> >> >> >> >> >> > we >> >> >> >> >> >> > could become. Until then we do need pieces of insight, I >> >> >> >> >> >> > suppose even >> >> >> >> >> >> > if >> >> >> >> >> >> > they come in the form of neti neti, many disciplines and >> >> >> >> >> >> > many arts so >> >> >> >> >> >> > long >> >> >> >> >> >> > as we don't lose the urge or spirit that led us to make >> >> >> >> >> >> > them- tools >> >> >> >> >> >> > handed >> >> >> >> >> >> > down for us to build on. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I hope this was along a constructive path for thoughts, >> >> >> >> >> >> > could you >> >> >> >> >> >> > offer >> >> >> >> >> >> > more >> >> >> >> >> >> > insight into how far self-mastery can go in your belief? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On 1/23/2011 1:16 PM, iam deheretic wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > RP by my experience you have a lot to learn >> >> >> >> >> >> > But your mind is closed and you know it all , sadly when >> >> >> >> >> >> > people set >> >> >> >> >> >> > the >> >> >> >> >> >> > conditions for something they can never exceed them >> because >> >> >> >> >> >> > they have >> >> >> >> >> >> > set >> >> >> >> >> >> > the only conditions they have set. sadder still it >> becomes >> >> >> >> >> >> > a self >> >> >> >> >> >> > fulfilling prophecy . >> >> >> >> >> >> > Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, RP Singh >> >> >> >> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The nearest a person can get to a state of >> Self-realization >> >> >> >> >> >> >> while >> >> >> >> >> >> >> still in this body is to attain to the calm of >> self-mastery >> >> >> >> >> >> >> , that >> >> >> >> >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> , to remain cool and self-composed in all favourable and >> >> >> >> >> >> >> adverse >> >> >> >> >> >> >> circumstances ----- to live and act with a spirit of >> >> >> >> >> >> >> detachment >> >> >> >> >> >> >> while >> >> >> >> >> >> >> doing all works to the best of one's ability. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:05 PM, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I almost agree with you RP. But of course it is >> possible >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > to >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > experiance such bliss whilst still alive, not easy, >> but >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > possible. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Jan 19, 2:49 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> All are different , some are incompetent , some >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> competent; some >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> are >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> fools , others are brilliant ; some are esteemed , >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> others >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> despicable; >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> and so on and on. But in reality all are equal as all >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> are made >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> from >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the One , Godself , and to that Godself all >> eventually >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> go and >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> find >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> eternal peace , the supreme bliss which can be >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> understood but >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> never >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> experienced while in this body. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> >> >> >> > ( >> >> >> >> >> >> > ) >> >> >> >> >> >> > I_D Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >> >> >> >> >> >> > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ( >> > ) >> > I_D Allan >> > >> > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >> > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > ( > ) > I_D Allan > > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, > >
