I know would rather exchange ideas, Allan On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:28 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> Na, Allan, you're running in circles. You are still exchanging words rather > than ideas. > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:15 PM, iam deheretic <[email protected]>wrote: > >> RP I really do object to anyones beliefs, all though I do have trouble >> with fundamentalism. what i see you saying is the same thing again and >> again and again and again. yes you have changed the words but you have said >> exactly the same thing. I love pushing fundamentalist buttons. There is >> nothing wrong with being a skeptic and that can be a good thing. >> >> I do not think at any time I have ever given a paranoid point of view and >> if you belief is the illusion you want to pursue have fun whether I think >> it is stupid is irrelevant, it is your beliefs >> >> My belief in God is not based off what others have written and then my >> interpretation of those beliefs. I seriously doubt that you could present >> anything that would change my beliefs. but I am willing to hear what you >> have to say. Francis of Assisi once said it is better to understand than be >> understood. >> >> When I prod you to expand your thought you just simply say the same thing. >> Now I read some material that was fascinating so I am willing to listen but >> I am tired of listing to your illusions or is that concept of it. >> Allan >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:59 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> When you start learning in your childhood you start with the >>> alphabets and then progress to words and further but that doesn't make >>> the alphabets irrelevant. In your quest for knowledge you first learn >>> what is Brahman and then you go and dissect his creation. What I have >>> been saying is not exactly what is written in Hindu religious texts >>> but my own interpretation of Truth and if you take it with a grain of >>> salt you are well advised as I myself am a sceptic by nature and don't >>> easily accept what the scriptures and other people say. I believe that >>> a person should think logically and not accept paranoid beliefs >>> because whatever a man's viewpoint is easily coloured by paranoid >>> occurrences and taking them to be true. There is so much in our belief >>> system which is amounting to superstition and I only exhort others >>> against such stupidity. There is God I believe and what He is like I >>> beg to differ from others and if I call creation an illusion you >>> cannot call me that as in your opinion everyone is an individual soul >>> and will last till eternity. Everyone to his beliefs , no matter >>> however founded , and if I seem to be ignorant to you that is no loss >>> to me. >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:08 PM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > Illusion known as RP As I read what you have written and in your self >>> > realization it sounds like you are the equal of Brahman, It is no sense >>> > discussing anything because you are all knowing. When my nephew married >>> a >>> > Hindi girl I decided i need to read the Veges they are very >>> interesting but >>> > i also noticed that those boys knew ow to make up one heck of a batch >>> of >>> > kick-a-poo juice. (No insult ash) so I take what is written with a >>> grain of >>> > salt, and there are whole oceans full of it. >>> > >>> > If you are a follower of Brahman you are a very small minority. I know >>> for >>> > certain that religious beliefs were never meant to be stagnant because >>> > he,she,it or what ever is a living self reveling being and "when you >>> think >>> > you know it all, there is more." >>> > Allan >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:32 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> First you have to admit whether there is only one Spirit or many >>> >> spirits ; if there are many spirits then though they are begot by one >>> >> God , yet they are separate from one another ; if there is only one >>> >> spirit then the entire creation is an illusion , including the >>> >> so-called souls , and thus perishable. In that case only God or Self >>> >> is and the individual selves are just reflections or bubbles and will >>> >> disappear on death. >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:46 PM, [email protected] >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > Hey RP. >>> >> > >>> >> > Or...... >>> >> > >>> >> > Just as the creation can be said to be the body of God, then all >>> >> > spirit is the spirit of God. >>> >> > >>> >> > If it is true that God created matter from the spirt of God, then >>> all >>> >> > matter contians the spirit of God. If it is also true that God >>> >> > created man in Gods image(whatever the hell that means) then it the >>> >> > spirit of a human is indistinguishable from the spirit of God. >>> >> > >>> >> > This my freind is where the illusion of duality occours. We think >>> we >>> >> > are seperate from God, I would ask how can we be if it is also true >>> >> > that God permates the creation? >>> >> > >>> >> > Is there even one iota of matter or spirt that does not contain God? >>> >> > >>> >> > On Jan 27, 2:38 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> Don't you see that if the whole creation is the body of God that we >>> as >>> >> >> part of this body cannot be the spirit of God , and thus all of us >>> are >>> >> >> mortals and it is the spirit that is God . In other words we as >>> part >>> >> >> of the body of God must bow before the Spirit which is God. Again >>> we >>> >> >> as part of the body will be turned to ashes whereas the Spirit >>> which >>> >> >> is God will remain as it is unborn , eternal and indestructible. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:58 PM, [email protected] >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> > Yet earlier you claimed that such liberation cannot come whilst >>> still >>> >> >> > alive. How can one understand, or attain salvation through >>> >> >> > understanding when the power to understand is no more? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > I put instead this way. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > We are not seperate from God, this is impossible as God is all, >>> god >>> >> >> > is >>> >> >> > pervasive throughout the creation, there exists not one iota of >>> >> >> > matter >>> >> >> > nor of spirit that is not of God. In a very real way God created >>> the >>> >> >> > creation out of the spirt of God. That is before there existed >>> any >>> >> >> > matter, there was only God in spirit. God uttered Om(if that is >>> your >>> >> >> > beliife) or said 'let there be light'(if that is your belife) or >>> in >>> >> >> > some manner created out of the spirt (or intelegance) of God. >>> >> >> > Literaly then the whole of creation can be said to be the 'body' >>> of >>> >> >> > God. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > The trick then is remebering, or realising this fundemantal >>> truth, >>> >> >> > there is no duality, we are not seperate from God. The bliss you >>> >> >> > talk >>> >> >> > of is realisation of this, and so God is attained, or more >>> properly, >>> >> >> > the truth(sat) is remembered. As we may say Sat Sri Akaal! God >>> is >>> >> >> > the objective truth. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > On Jan 25, 3:31 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> >> When a person realizes that he is just a figment of God's >>> >> >> >> imagination >>> >> >> >> and that Brahman alone IS then he attains to salvation , >>> liberation >>> >> >> >> of >>> >> >> >> the soul from duality to a state of non-duality , unending and >>> >> >> >> unbreakable bliss. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:06 AM, iam deheretic < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> > RP you must be awful fearful of death. and you are talking in >>> >> >> >> > circles >>> >> >> >> > trying to sound like you understand some thing but to me you >>> sound >>> >> >> >> > confused >>> >> >> >> > and lost and searching for salvation, Sorry RP I fall short >>> on >>> >> >> >> > just what >>> >> >> >> > this salvation thing is. To simplify it for you RP When you >>> begin >>> >> >> >> > to realize >>> >> >> >> > you are part of Brahman and because of the simple fact there >>> is an >>> >> >> >> > infinite >>> >> >> >> > connection,, now all you have to learn is to be a kinder >>> gentler >>> >> >> >> > person >>> >> >> >> > learning to love others as Brahman loves you, Simple yes, but >>> it >>> >> >> >> > take a life >>> >> >> >> > time to perfect. >>> >> >> >> > Allan >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:17 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>> >> >> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> For those to whom the idea of death is fearful it is death to >>> >> >> >> >> them , >>> >> >> >> >> but those who recognising the inevitability of death and >>> being >>> >> >> >> >> unattached to the various bonds of life see that they will >>> merge >>> >> >> >> >> into >>> >> >> >> >> the One God , attain to the supreme bliss that is Brahman. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:36 PM, iam deheretic >>> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > Hmm I have read part of it . some what interesting and if >>> you >>> >> >> >> >> > have >>> >> >> >> >> > nothing >>> >> >> >> >> > else it could be totally fascinating I like work but it >>> means >>> >> >> >> >> > little >>> >> >> >> >> > and I >>> >> >> >> >> > can often times see the purpose, reading what you say work >>> >> >> >> >> > without >>> >> >> >> >> > attachment. you make it sound difficult really is it as >>> you >>> >> >> >> >> > want it to >>> >> >> >> >> > be >>> >> >> >> >> > ,, sounds more like an self fulfilling prophecy personally >>> I >>> >> >> >> >> > like work >>> >> >> >> >> > simply because I enjoy working >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > Yes you often reiterate old teachers , but does that mean >>> you >>> >> >> >> >> > understand >>> >> >> >> >> > what they are actually saying? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > RP the purpose and function is to get to know God and that >>> >> >> >> >> > applies to >>> >> >> >> >> > every >>> >> >> >> >> > one, is it going to happen? The entirety of your being both >>> >> >> >> >> > body and >>> >> >> >> >> > soul is >>> >> >> >> >> > totally contained with in God (no matter what name you want >>> to >>> >> >> >> >> > call >>> >> >> >> >> > him.) >>> >> >> >> >> > the other is to do his will for you and for each person it >>> is >>> >> >> >> >> > different. By >>> >> >> >> >> > responding to the world around you in reality you are >>> >> >> >> >> > responding to God >>> >> >> >> >> > the >>> >> >> >> >> > creator.These request of God are often times very quiet and >>> >> >> >> >> > subtle.If >>> >> >> >> >> > you >>> >> >> >> >> > don't respond well then you just simple don't. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > You tell me RP to open my eyes and accept the certainty of >>> >> >> >> >> > death and >>> >> >> >> >> > salvation. Do you even know what death is and what >>> salvation >>> >> >> >> >> > is? >>> >> >> >> >> > Allan >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 5:08 AM, RP Singh < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> >> >> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> When a person loses wealth or name he becomes depressed >>> >> >> >> >> >> whereas a >>> >> >> >> >> >> person who has attained to the calm of self-mastery >>> remains >>> >> >> >> >> >> cool and >>> >> >> >> >> >> composed as he has ever a spirit of detachment from all >>> >> >> >> >> >> worldly >>> >> >> >> >> >> things. But that doesn't mean that he becomes a zombie as >>> he >>> >> >> >> >> >> acts and >>> >> >> >> >> >> behaves normally , doing all necessary work and making >>> efforts >>> >> >> >> >> >> without >>> >> >> >> >> >> the attachment associated with such work. This view has >>> been >>> >> >> >> >> >> put forth >>> >> >> >> >> >> by many great teachers and I am only reiterating it --- >>> read >>> >> >> >> >> >> the >>> >> >> >> >> >> bhagwadgita and you may find something of what I am saying >>> >> >> >> >> >> clearly >>> >> >> >> >> >> enunciated there. People go in search of the elusive self >>> as >>> >> >> >> >> >> if it >>> >> >> >> >> >> were somewhere underneath wraps , whereas the truth is it >>> is >>> >> >> >> >> >> right >>> >> >> >> >> >> there before you and you fail to see it. >>> >> >> >> >> >> The Self is that Nothing of which scientist speak from >>> which >>> >> >> >> >> >> the >>> >> >> >> >> >> universe has emanated and to which it will go---and if you >>> >> >> >> >> >> think that >>> >> >> >> >> >> you will be able to grasp it within your hand , you have >>> lot >>> >> >> >> >> >> to learn. >>> >> >> >> >> >> You ask me to learn but all that you speak of has been >>> >> >> >> >> >> gathering dust >>> >> >> >> >> >> in books and folklore , why don't you just open your eyes >>> and >>> >> >> >> >> >> accept >>> >> >> >> >> >> the certainty of death and salvation. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Ash <[email protected] >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Hope I don't get in the way here RP but I was waiting >>> for >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Allan >>> >> >> >> >> >> > before >>> >> >> >> >> >> > butting in. At first I found this troubling and not >>> purely >>> >> >> >> >> >> > on the >>> >> >> >> >> >> > basis >>> >> >> >> >> >> > of >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Individuality, but that there is a separation between >>> things >>> >> >> >> >> >> > such >>> >> >> >> >> >> > that >>> >> >> >> >> >> > we >>> >> >> >> >> >> > are striving for our own nullification in a process of >>> >> >> >> >> >> > spiritual >>> >> >> >> >> >> > division >>> >> >> >> >> >> > then multiplication, while at the same time we are >>> speaking >>> >> >> >> >> >> > of an >>> >> >> >> >> >> > eternal >>> >> >> >> >> >> > and infinite wellspring. It may be that this is the >>> greatest >>> >> >> >> >> >> > height >>> >> >> >> >> >> > that >>> >> >> >> >> >> > any >>> >> >> >> >> >> > teacher will speak of or has attained and it may indeed >>> be >>> >> >> >> >> >> > The truth, >>> >> >> >> >> >> > however it may also be a misleading truth if we accept >>> it as >>> >> >> >> >> >> > the only >>> >> >> >> >> >> > destination. The definition of self-realization may also >>> be >>> >> >> >> >> >> > a >>> >> >> >> >> >> > half-truth, >>> >> >> >> >> >> > depending on how you define self-mastery. If >>> realization is >>> >> >> >> >> >> > a mere >>> >> >> >> >> >> > perceptual trick in the grand scheme compared to God, it >>> is >>> >> >> >> >> >> > just one >>> >> >> >> >> >> > step of >>> >> >> >> >> >> > the ladder, of which there may be an infinite supply >>> (and >>> >> >> >> >> >> > all of that >>> >> >> >> >> >> > may >>> >> >> >> >> >> > fall within another mastery). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > I would much prefer to walk my path for a very long >>> time, >>> >> >> >> >> >> > wherever it >>> >> >> >> >> >> > may >>> >> >> >> >> >> > lead, through samsara or hell and put a foot in many >>> >> >> >> >> >> > dimensions of >>> >> >> >> >> >> > existence, merely to explore and discover. Heaven and >>> hell >>> >> >> >> >> >> > I'd flip >>> >> >> >> >> >> > upside >>> >> >> >> >> >> > down and leave no stone unturned to see where and what >>> we >>> >> >> >> >> >> > are and >>> >> >> >> >> >> > what >>> >> >> >> >> >> > possibilities may be. Noone can say where that would >>> take >>> >> >> >> >> >> > us, or what >>> >> >> >> >> >> > we >>> >> >> >> >> >> > could become. Until then we do need pieces of insight, I >>> >> >> >> >> >> > suppose even >>> >> >> >> >> >> > if >>> >> >> >> >> >> > they come in the form of neti neti, many disciplines and >>> >> >> >> >> >> > many arts so >>> >> >> >> >> >> > long >>> >> >> >> >> >> > as we don't lose the urge or spirit that led us to make >>> >> >> >> >> >> > them- tools >>> >> >> >> >> >> > handed >>> >> >> >> >> >> > down for us to build on. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > I hope this was along a constructive path for thoughts, >>> >> >> >> >> >> > could you >>> >> >> >> >> >> > offer >>> >> >> >> >> >> > more >>> >> >> >> >> >> > insight into how far self-mastery can go in your belief? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > On 1/23/2011 1:16 PM, iam deheretic wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > RP by my experience you have a lot to learn >>> >> >> >> >> >> > But your mind is closed and you know it all , sadly when >>> >> >> >> >> >> > people set >>> >> >> >> >> >> > the >>> >> >> >> >> >> > conditions for something they can never exceed them >>> because >>> >> >> >> >> >> > they have >>> >> >> >> >> >> > set >>> >> >> >> >> >> > the only conditions they have set. sadder still it >>> becomes >>> >> >> >> >> >> > a self >>> >> >> >> >> >> > fulfilling prophecy . >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Allan >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM, RP Singh >>> >> >> >> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> The nearest a person can get to a state of >>> Self-realization >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> while >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> still in this body is to attain to the calm of >>> self-mastery >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> , that >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> is >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> , to remain cool and self-composed in all favourable >>> and >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> adverse >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> circumstances ----- to live and act with a spirit of >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> detachment >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> while >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> doing all works to the best of one's ability. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:05 PM, >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> [email protected] >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I almost agree with you RP. But of course it is >>> possible >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > to >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > experiance such bliss whilst still alive, not easy, >>> but >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > possible. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Jan 19, 2:49 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> All are different , some are incompetent , some >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> competent; some >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> are >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> fools , others are brilliant ; some are esteemed , >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> others >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> despicable; >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> and so on and on. But in reality all are equal as >>> all >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> are made >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> from >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the One , Godself , and to that Godself all >>> eventually >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> go and >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> find >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> eternal peace , the supreme bliss which can be >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> understood but >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> never >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> experienced while in this body. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > -- >>> >> >> >> >> >> > ( >>> >> >> >> >> >> > ) >>> >> >> >> >> >> > I_D Allan >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >>> >> >> >> >> >> > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > -- >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >>> >> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text - >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > ( >>> > ) >>> > I_D Allan >>> > >>> > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >>> > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> I_D Allan >> >> If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken >> Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, >> >> > -- ( ) I_D Allan If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
