If you really look at it we do have a new religion that is spreading around the world.. fast Allan
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 2:50 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway, > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/ > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol > > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> Bingo ! * sounding the drums * >> >> But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is >> essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ... beauty, >> ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc. >> >> Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others. >> >> There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has >> served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a >> blow at its own foot ! >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which >> > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a >> > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the >> > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped >> > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to >> > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus >> > demonstrable facts. >> >> > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > It will still be more clever than the rest ! >> >> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-) >> >> > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to >> > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for >> > specific >> > > > > acts or purposes ... " >> >> > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, >> >> > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed >> >> > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! >> >> > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee >> > as a >> > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick >> > up >> > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- >> > patterns >> > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/ >> > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed >> > to >> > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for >> > specific >> > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight >> > and >> > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final >> > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. >> > Hard >> > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year >> > old >> > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for >> > > > > > violinists. >> >> > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to >> > > > farming >> > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those >> > who >> > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious >> > > > issue >> > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and >> > > > life- >> > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their >> > host >> > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they >> > become >> > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved >> > ant >> > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the >> > wider >> > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt >> > > > > > > peonage. >> > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on >> > offer >> > > > for >> > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese >> > > > refer >> > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. >> > > > Some >> > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to >> > note >> > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as >> > work >> > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My >> > own >> > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that >> > James >> > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining >> > subjects >> > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control >> > > > fraud. >> > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. >> > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most >> > people >> > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I >> > > > clear >> > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no >> > human >> > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with >> > our >> > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year >> > to >> > > > have >> > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon >> > my >> > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to >> > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done >> > this >> > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering. >> > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict >> > the >> > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in >> > non-human >> > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of >> > why a >> > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. >> > I'll >> > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants >> > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'? >> >> > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the >> > role >> > > > (or a >> > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a >> > world >> > > > with >> > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to >> > > > > > undertake >> > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside >> > our >> > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These >> > are >> > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led >> > > > becomes >> > > > > > too >> > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as >> > does >> > > > the >> > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, >> > corrupting >> > > > as in >> > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared >> > > > language >> > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can >> > present a >> > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what >> > impetus >> > > > would >> > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and >> > where, >> > > > I've >> > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring >> > > > > > currently, >> > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for >> > sharing >> > > > what >> > > > > > > > you gather. :) >> >> > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical >> > concept of >> > > > > > things >> > > > > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the >> > body as >> > > > > > nothing >> > > > > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this >> > > > seems to >> > > > > > be >> > > > > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality. >> > > > > > > > > Allan >> >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <[email protected] >> > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future >> > > > > > possibilities >> > > > > > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a >> > > > > > consequence >> > > > > > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left >> > > > unchecked >> > > > > > can >> > > > > > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I >> > can >> > > > tell >> > > > > > we >> > > > > > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on >> > as >> > > > long >> > > > > > as >> > > > > > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is >> > that we >> > > > can >> > > > > > do >> > > > > > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue >> > > > > > strategic >> > > > > > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. >> >> > > > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be >> > > > accessible >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity >> > at >> > > > 80+ >> > > > > > > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in >> > > > your >> > > > > > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of >> > engineers >> > > > that >> > > > > > would >> > > > > > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today >> > with >> > > > > > moderate >> > > > > > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net >> > generated >> > > > > > income >> > > > > > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by >> > running a >> > > > > > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. >> > SOFC, >> > > > > > steam >> > > > > > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a >> > few >> > > > terms >> > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > > that type of nut. >> >> > > > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our >> > > > social >> > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be >> > able >> > > > to >> > > > > > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but >> > we >> > > > > > insist >> >> ... >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > -- > > > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
