>From my perspective this reborn metaphor is misleading, it leads you to the next level of happy self betrayal. The Amish community is a wonderful example of what it looks like when an evolving society allows a small group to conserve themselves in their own bubble and protects them from natural updating processes. I believe there is better ways to not forget the values of America's European history.
2012/11/19 andrew vecsey <[email protected]> > In my opinion opting out of their game is more like being reborn than of > going to your own funeral. The less defendant we are on others or on > things, the more free we are. We have grown to be so defendant on the > system that we are afraid that we can not survive without it. The Amish > community is an example that clearly demonstrates that we can survive and > even thrive without the system that I refer to as globalization. It is > dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket. > > On Monday, November 19, 2012 11:39:27 AM UTC+1, gabbydott wrote: > >> It really is that simple. It is like going to your own funeral. >> >> >> 2012/11/19 andrew vecsey <[email protected]> >> >> With drugs and mass media they control our desires and with drugs and >>> schools they control our thinking. The only simple solution I can think of >>> is not to play their game. Just refuse to buy what they offer to sell. . >>> >>> On Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>> >>>> globalization can be very beneficial and granted there are many self >>>> centered individuals and corporations that have that have little >>>> concern for others or our world.. but one thing that is coming out of >>>> it they can not control what people thing and desire their world to >>>> be.. Little by little I see people reclaiming the dreams of a better >>>> world. >>>> Oh well what can you expect from an old hippie >>>> Allan >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 7:43 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > Andrew is obviously right when one considers where our wealth is >>>> > ending-up. This group is broadly parochial, white and barely >>>> > understands what it excludes and how. We are reliant on centralised >>>> > technology that is soon to force us to a format we don't want. >>>> > Rigsy's question is about right. Previous globalisation was >>>> > colonising and I suspect most of what we are witnessing now is in >>>> that >>>> > model. It would be good to make the move in emphasis Molly suggests, >>>> > but the signs in the underlying business model indicate the opposite >>>> > to me - currently remaining in advertising and making a killing in >>>> > market share. There is another (dated) form of globalisation in the >>>> > phrase 'workers of the world unite' and it must be clear this has >>>> been >>>> > resisted by the powerful other than in their own 'guilds'. My list >>>> on >>>> > what globalisation is would be long and rather vague - including >>>> > teaching foreign students with bare English textbook answers I kn ow >>>> > to be rot. James Bond has globalised but not decent water, food and >>>> > housing for all - let alone freedom from the kind of idiots on all >>>> > sides who keep such stuff as the Arab-Israeli conflict going. >>>> > >>>> > We need realistic optimism - but this means embracing really bad news >>>> > on climate (worse than we think) and history (much worse than we >>>> > think) in order to see how we get some decent stuff done amongst the >>>> > enemies of open society. Globalisation is getting very real in the >>>> > sense of telepresence (I could be operated on in Bolton by a surgeon >>>> > in Madras) and other varieties of the embodiment of knowledge that >>>> > will allow remote and even home manufacturing. >>>> > >>>> > Postmodernism (which I regard as the move to modernism we have never >>>> > had) is bringing about a legitimation crisis. I am broadly (but not >>>> > completely) free of the religious dross taught in youth and chronic >>>> > copy-teachers who told me Julius Caesar invaded Britain in 53AD and >>>> > that humans have 24 pairs of chromosomes like other apes. To >>>> discover >>>> > the extent of ideological dross in my education I travelled. The >>>> > Internet's supposedly global reach does not even compare. How could >>>> > anything be more parochial that Faceflop and Twatter? What would be >>>> > want to globalise - does anyone ever ask us? How about freedom from >>>> > work as means of income? >>>> > >>>> > On 18 Nov, 14:11, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> I disagree, Andrew, and take a view more like Alan's. Globalization >>>> >> occurs when more folks operate from a world-centric life view (not >>>> ego- >>>> >> centric or ethno-centric), more countries are trading goods and >>>> >> services, and more folks have access to goods and services from >>>> other >>>> >> countries. This group is comprised of folks from many different >>>> parts >>>> >> of the world. A good example. >>>> >> >>>> >> On Nov 18, 4:09 am, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Globalization is reverting to the ownership and control of >>>> everything world >>>> >> > wide by the few. That is the danger of it all. >>>> >> >>>> >> > On Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:41:31 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > I think realistically globalization is revering to the access to >>>> >> > > everything world wide >>>> >> > > Allan >>>> >> >>>> >> > > On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:19 PM, rigsy03 >>>> >> > > <[email protected]<javascript:>> >>>> >> > > wrote: >>>> >> > > > But what does the term "globalization" mean? It is an abstract >>>> term. >>>> >> > > > (Sort of like Alexander's "empire" at his death- to be defined >>>> by the >>>> >> > > > strongest?) >>>> >> >>>> >> > > > On Nov 17, 4:18 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> > > >> I agree with you Saris are very beautiful and believe me that >>>> can get >>>> >> > > >> into the pricey range. Her wedding saris was well over 30,000 >>>> Euro and >>>> >> > > >> her mothers was just as bad.. was never told the exact >>>> price.. but >>>> >> > > >> it was out of the finest silk.. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> There are benefits to globalization ,, unfortunately those >>>> benefits >>>> >> > > >> are easily destroyed by those people and companies that are >>>> extremely >>>> >> > > >> selfish and uncaring... Greedy is to soft a word for their >>>> >> > > >> activities.. >>>> >> > > >> Allan >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 2:16 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> > > >> > A great question- what is it? Maybe it is what the major >>>> powers/ >>>> >> > > >> > economies tell us it is. Facts betray the huge inequities >>>> among the >>>> >> > > >> > nations/humanity. I would hope we don't lose some of our >>>> differences >>>> >> > > >> > and adopt one style and language. Saris are my favorite to >>>> watch and >>>> >> > > >> > think Indian and Asian women beat out Americans- the men >>>> aren't bad >>>> >> > > >> > either. Remember when we were all so separated and the >>>> "other" seemed >>>> >> > > >> > to look the same- a kind of blindness, I guess. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> > On Nov 15, 8:47 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> > > >> >> The big question is what is globalising. In part this is >>>> stuff we >>>> >> > > >> >> don't want. We are still haunted by superstition, sexism >>>> and >>>> >> > > >> >> imperialism. I'd like to see more of our economies about >>>> building >>>> >> > > >> >> safe communities and see foreign policies and our limited >>>> vision of >>>> >> > > >> >> 'efficiency' as the major bars to this. Disease is likely >>>> >> > > >> >> globalising, the ability to make WMDs and take part in >>>> manufacturing >>>> >> > > >> >> for war. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> On 15 Nov, 23:34, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > I would substitute ignorance for indifference. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > On Nov 15, 10:00 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > Untill nationalisn has distinctive meaning, political >>>> and >>>> >> > > cultural, and >>>> >> > > >> >> > > economic, free movement of people can only be a pipe >>>> dream. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > And the "meaning," it must be remembered, is an >>>> emotional - >>>> >> > > mental thing... >>>> >> > > >> >> > > not merely intellectual. That's how phenomenal >>>> dimensions of any >>>> >> > > thing >>>> >> > > >> >> > > extends ... from indifference to emotional values, >>>> covering >>>> >> > > almost >>>> >> > > >> >> > > everything existential in society, politics and >>>> economics ... >>>> >> > > and to >>>> >> > > >> >> > > intellectual conviction, which is singularly absent in >>>> >> > > everything >>>> >> > > >> >> > > experiential that individuals bring into their >>>> attitudes and >>>> >> > > everyday >>>> >> > > >> >> > > decision-making at their present level evolution. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > One of the most intellectual calls was issued by Marx. >>>> No one >>>> >> > > could stand >>>> >> > > >> >> > > up to its rigour ... not the champions and >>>> subscribers, not the >>>> >> > > staus >>>> >> > > >> >> > > quoist rest of the world. Capitalism stays, because it >>>> factors >>>> >> > > in our >>>> >> > > >> >> > > emotional drives, not because it is most just and fair >>>> to the >>>> >> > > weakest in >>>> >> > > >> >> > > our midst ! >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > Au revoir ... >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > On Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:15:49 PM UTC+5:30, >>>> Lee Douglas >>>> >> > > wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > Meh! As you know I'm all for freedom of movement, >>>> live where >>>> >> > > you like, if >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > much of India wish to migrate to The USA and settle >>>> in the Mid >>>> >> > > West then go >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > to it. However with around only 3-5% of Earth's >>>> land mass >>>> >> > > populated and >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > with an increasing amount of that population living >>>> in urban >>>> >> > > environments I >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > daresay that India has much land of it's own in >>>> which it's >>>> >> > > residents can >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > settle. Even when much of the land is gone, we are >>>> in fact >>>> >> > > making strides >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > for sea based habitat. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > Over population is a concern, much, much more for >>>> reasons of >>>> >> > > food >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > and energy production though than any reasons of not >>>> enough >>>> >> > > land mass. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > > On Thursday, 15 November 2012 14:15:16 UTC, Allan >>>> Heretic >>>> >> > > wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> Okay there is large sections of farm land in the >>>> Mid west >>>> >> > > maybe we >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> can help the people of India resettle into that >>>> area..?? >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> Allan >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Lee Douglas < >>>> >> > > [email protected]> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> wrote: >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > Umm myself I can't see globalisation as anything >>>> but a good >>>> >> > > thing. The >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > sooner we find that our cultural differences do >>>> not matter >>>> >> > > and we learn >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> to >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > judge the individual(as opposed to the group) the >>>> better as >>>> >> > > far as I'm >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > concerned. Ultimately it will take global >>>> working together >>>> >> > > to sort out >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> the >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > worlds ills. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > Overpopulation is a concern, but to too much of >>>> one at this >>>> >> > > moment in >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> time, >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > there are huge tracts of land still to be >>>> settled. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> > On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:22:17 UTC, >>>> archytas wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> One of the Faust stories more or less predicts >>>> the >>>> >> > > mechanism for the >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> rise of Nazi Germany including the funding. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> On 13 Nov, 19:33, Allan H <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Wetlands are very important. The recovery >>>> work here was >>>> >> > > done >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> centuries >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ago.. and here we are very eco awe. >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Allan >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Matrix ** th3 beginning light >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Nov 13, 2012 2:03 PM, "rigsy03" < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> >> > > wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > By coincidence of a former discussion, Faust >>>> was >>>> >> > > draining a swamp >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> as >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > part of his spiritual rehab.//Another >>>> subject, >>>> >> > > however, would be >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> the >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > wetlands and their role in the ecology. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > On Nov 12, 6:11 am, Allan H < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> >> > > wrote: >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > The Dutch are crazy a and very adept at >>>> working with >>>> >> > > the sea.. >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> and >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > yes >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > it cost massive supplying its own power >>>> amounts of >>>> >> > > money.. but >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > land >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > recovery is and can be very beneficial to >>>> the >>>> >> > > society. We have >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> to >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > protect our dunes to protect our country.. >>>> there is >>>> >> > > very little >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> sea >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > front property unlike both the east ans >>>> west coasts >>>> >> > > of the US.. >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > where the coast is used mainly for private >>>> >> > > residences >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > The dutch have been using green houses for >>>> years >>>> >> > > long before >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > Israel,, >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > the concept of vertical greenhouses id >>>> one for >>>> >> > > producing >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> produce in >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > areas where it is needed like high density >>>> cities >>>> >> > > where space is >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> at >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > a >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > premium and population is at its maximum.. >>>> trying >>>> >> > > to bring down >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> the >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > cost of food.. and it is based on >>>> hydroponics and >>>> >> > > objectively >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> to be >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > self sufficient power wise.. the idea is >>>> not >>>> >> > > particularly cheap >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> but >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > as for the benefit of society is extremely >>>> valuable. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > Some ideas need to be looked at in >>>> relationship to >>>> >> > > self. >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > Allan >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:59 AM, rigsy03 < >>>> >> > > [email protected]> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> wrote: >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > Israel has been very successful with >>>> greenhouse >>>> >> > > agriculture. A >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > nearby >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > restaurant contracted with local >>>> homeowners to >>>> >> > > grow some fresh >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > produce >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > which might catch on. I consider the >>>> labor and >>>> >> > > high water >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> usage a >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > negative, however. >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > On Nov 11, 5:23 am, Allan H < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> >> > > wrote: >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> I don't think that will work,, I think >>>> your >>>> >> > > solution would >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> result in >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> wide spread famine world wide though >>>> the >>>> >> > > chemical farmers >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> are >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> not the >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> best solution they are not the worst >>>> either >>>> >> > > from >>>> >> > > >> >> > > >> supermarkets >>>> >> >>>> >> ... >>>> >> >>>> >> read more ยป >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ( >>>> ) >>>> |_D Allan >>>> >>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >>>> >>>> >>>> I am a Natural Airgunner - >>>> >>>> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- > > > > --
