I know the clarity thing very well,, and thoroughly enjoyed it.. It is a very nice place to be.. lol then I moved to the Netherlands..
Since I have been here and chatting on this group .. I have started asking a lot of questions and some very stupid ones at that,, the problem started with a vacation to Malta.. interesting place.. and some interesting facts showed up.. and they really started mess with my beliefs.. but I have to admit some of the questions had risen earlier.. Recently I found out that what my beliefs evolved to were declared a heresy early in the churches history when they dealt with groups that disagreed with them by murder.. I would be one of those people the followers of Paul Murdered.. The Catholic Faith is fine for most people and they are semi-safe spiritually and live good spiritual lives.. I also see the good that the church does.. and do not focus in the minor faults that are magnified. The problem comes from when I read the prayers and services for my self I find myself lying to to me and that is not a good position to be in spiritually. In my personal opinion, beliefs should be flexible and able to evolve into stronger as well as more personal.I have a friend that has joined me and his questions keep pressing the envelope.. There is no intention of starting a church though.. I am definitely not the writer Merton was.. Allan On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > I too did the circle back to my Catholic roots, seeing everything > about it completely differently now, but the reverence. That ever- > present feeling of connected-ness is still the same for me. Oddly > enough, I have moved back to the area where I first felt it and am > able to sit (for hours) in the same church. As an adult, the nuns do > not chase me home. > > Merton's journey quickly took him to the realm of the mystic. From > time to time, he captures Christian mysticism with overpowering > clarity. He did a lot of work later in life on inter-faith councils, > especially with the Buddhists. It was the 60's after all. Here in > the states, he really bridged the gap with the younger generation > (flower children). So, his writing provides peace for me in between > times of mounting bureaucracy and spiraling memes to resurrect the > failing economic engine of one of the country's most interesting and > troubled cities. Here, after many leaps of faith. Truth be told, I > may be too old for it all, it seems to exhaust me. Finding the groups > of folks in this area, brilliant and not in need of more income or > activity, invested in bringing back the vitality of a place and a > people whose value has been corroded and covered up with waste and > greed for decades, is inspiring. And it is happening, the comeback. > Cynics say things will never change. I see it changing all around me. > > I can't explain swarm mentality, and wonder at people camped out for > over a week in front of a store waiting to the time it opens on the > day after Thanksgiving. My leap of faith is that what is unseen in > the process makes it difficult to understand. My judgement makes it > right or wrong. All of that is mental. Lately, I tree watch. Watch > the same tree for hours. The mental is given a rest while the life in > me springs eternal. My own particular refresh button. > > On Nov 20, 2:45 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> my view of the sacraments and rituals were far different years ago and >> do seethe importance of them.. you can buy the missal, actually all >> the official prayer books for your phone if you have android.. don't >> know about apple as I don't have one.. >> >> I used to love the prayers and Mass,, then evolution of beliefs >> started again, with my vacation to Malta. An very interesting truth >> saw reveled since then it does not read the same.. >> >> oddly though my beliefs have returned full circle from where I started >> 45+ years ago with a vision involving Jesus.. the The vision is still >> valid but my interpretation of "I am the way the light and the truth." >> has changed. >> >> I am studying in a way the same thing.. The Buddhist teaching are >> very correct.. in the path of salvation,, (looked up a word, only to >> find it actually meant something different than what I had gained as >> its meaning,) It was said that in the years before Jesus started >> teaching he had traveled to India, I see tremendous similarities in >> his teachings and those of Buddha.. I also see the influence of >> people wanting a short cut to spirituality. >> >> Though I never read or knew Merton I did have the privilege of >> talking with people that did know him.. I could not afford his books >> at the time. >> >> Oddly I do believe with globalization and the greater access to >> knowledge, beliefs are starting to change again. I see it in myself >> and what is saw as the very core and foundation of belief. >> Alllan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > My husband and I are both reading seven story mountain, and I bought a >> > few more for Christmas presents: No Man is an Island; New Seeds of >> > Contemplation; Contemplative prayer. I admire his translation of the >> > sacraments and rituals to internal processes. >> >> > What is often missed, is that the notion of heaven on earth does not >> > ignore human shortcoming or suffering. It integrates and recognizes. >> > Like a Bodhisattva, joyfully participating in the sorrows of the >> > world. Allowing each his own, and knowing and feeling the connection >> > of all. I don't dwell in despair. That doesn't mean it does not exist >> > in the world. I work every day in downtown Detroit. And see much, >> > but don't worry about the wrong or right of it. I just work each day >> > in joy. People smile when they see (and feel) a genuine smile. >> >> > On Nov 19, 3:45 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Molly which one of Merton's books are you reading .. he is quiet >> >> prolific.. >> >> Allan >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > I don't think that isolating like the Amish (who lead their >> >> > ethnocentric group with control measures) or focusing on the ills of >> >> > government, law enforcement or narrow economic pictures give a clear >> >> > picture of what globalization means to humanity. Ultimately, what is >> >> > seen in separation, separates us. I feel toward humanity as Thomas >> >> > Merton: >> >> >> > "There is in all things an inexhaustible sweetness and purity, a >> >> > silence that is a fountain of action and joy. It rises up in wordless >> >> > gentleness and flows out of me from unseen roots of all created >> >> > beings." >> >> >> > The unseen roots unite us, and globalization is spirit in action in >> >> > the "rising up." How this manifests in our view is largely dependent >> >> > on our own given focus. If it is dismal we need to feel, we will see >> >> > the dismal every time. It doesn't change the fact that heaven on >> >> > earth is ours for the taking. More spirit in action. >> >> >> > "It doesn't matter which you heard, the holy or the broken >> >> > Hallelujah." Both holy and broken co-exist. Both are holy in the >> >> > unification. >> >> >> > On Nov 19, 6:49 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> From my perspective this reborn metaphor is misleading, it leads you >> >> >> to the >> >> >> next level of happy self betrayal. The Amish community is a wonderful >> >> >> example of what it looks like when an evolving society allows a small >> >> >> group >> >> >> to conserve themselves in their own bubble and protects them from >> >> >> natural >> >> >> updating processes. I believe there is better ways to not forget the >> >> >> values >> >> >> of America's European history. >> >> >> >> 2012/11/19 andrew vecsey <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> > In my opinion opting out of their game is more like being reborn >> >> >> > than of >> >> >> > going to your own funeral. The less defendant we are on others or on >> >> >> > things, the more free we are. We have grown to be so defendant on the >> >> >> > system that we are afraid that we can not survive without it. The >> >> >> > Amish >> >> >> > community is an example that clearly demonstrates that we can >> >> >> > survive and >> >> >> > even thrive without the system that I refer to as globalization. It >> >> >> > is >> >> >> > dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket. >> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 19, 2012 11:39:27 AM UTC+1, gabbydott wrote: >> >> >> >> >> It really is that simple. It is like going to your own funeral. >> >> >> >> >> 2012/11/19 andrew vecsey <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> >> With drugs and mass media they control our desires and with drugs >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >>> schools they control our thinking. The only simple solution I can >> >> >> >>> think of >> >> >> >>> is not to play their game. Just refuse to buy what they offer to >> >> >> >>> sell. . >> >> >> >> >>> On Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>> globalization can be very beneficial and granted there are many >> >> >> >>>> self >> >> >> >>>> centered individuals and corporations that have that have little >> >> >> >>>> concern for others or our world.. but one thing that is coming >> >> >> >>>> out of >> >> >> >>>> it they can not control what people thing and desire their world >> >> >> >>>> to >> >> >> >>>> be.. Little by little I see people reclaiming the dreams of a >> >> >> >>>> better >> >> >> >>>> world. >> >> >> >>>> Oh well what can you expect from an old hippie >> >> >> >>>> Allan >> >> >> >> >>>> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 7:43 PM, archytas <[email protected]> >> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> > Andrew is obviously right when one considers where our wealth is >> >> >> >>>> > ending-up. This group is broadly parochial, white and barely >> >> >> >>>> > understands what it excludes and how. We are reliant on >> >> >> >>>> > centralised >> >> >> >>>> > technology that is soon to force us to a format we don't want. >> >> >> >>>> > Rigsy's question is about right. Previous globalisation was >> >> >> >>>> > colonising and I suspect most of what we are witnessing now is >> >> >> >>>> > in >> >> >> >>>> that >> >> >> >>>> > model. It would be good to make the move in emphasis Molly >> >> >> >>>> > suggests, >> >> >> >>>> > but the signs in the underlying business model indicate the >> >> >> >>>> > opposite >> >> >> >>>> > to me - currently remaining in advertising and making a killing >> >> >> >>>> > in >> >> >> >>>> > market share. There is another (dated) form of globalisation >> >> >> >>>> > in the >> >> >> >>>> > phrase 'workers of the world unite' and it must be clear this >> >> >> >>>> > has >> >> >> >>>> been >> >> >> >>>> > resisted by the powerful other than in their own 'guilds'. My >> >> >> >>>> > list >> >> >> >>>> on >> >> >> >>>> > what globalisation is would be long and rather vague - including >> >> >> >>>> > teaching foreign students with bare English textbook answers I >> >> >> >>>> > kn ow >> >> >> >>>> > to be rot. James Bond has globalised but not decent water, >> >> >> >>>> > food and >> >> >> >>>> > housing for all - let alone freedom from the kind of idiots on >> >> >> >>>> > all >> >> >> >>>> > sides who keep such stuff as the Arab-Israeli conflict going. >> >> >> >> >>>> > We need realistic optimism - but this means embracing really >> >> >> >>>> > bad news >> >> >> >>>> > on climate (worse than we think) and history (much worse than we >> >> >> >>>> > think) in order to see how we get some decent stuff done >> >> >> >>>> > amongst the >> >> >> >>>> > enemies of open society. Globalisation is getting very real in >> >> >> >>>> > the >> >> >> >>>> > sense of telepresence (I could be operated on in Bolton by a >> >> >> >>>> > surgeon >> >> >> >>>> > in Madras) and other varieties of the embodiment of knowledge >> >> >> >>>> > that >> >> >> >>>> > will allow remote and even home manufacturing. >> >> >> >> >>>> > Postmodernism (which I regard as the move to modernism we have >> >> >> >>>> > never >> >> >> >>>> > had) is bringing about a legitimation crisis. I am broadly >> >> >> >>>> > (but not >> >> >> >>>> > completely) free of the religious dross taught in youth and >> >> >> >>>> > chronic >> >> >> >>>> > copy-teachers who told me Julius Caesar invaded Britain in 53AD >> >> >> >>>> > and >> >> >> >>>> > that humans have 24 pairs of chromosomes like other apes. To >> >> >> >>>> discover >> >> >> >>>> > the extent of ideological dross in my education I travelled. >> >> >> >>>> > The >> >> >> >>>> > Internet's supposedly global reach does not even compare. How >> >> >> >>>> > could >> >> >> >>>> > anything be more parochial that Faceflop and Twatter? What >> >> >> >>>> > would be >> >> >> >>>> > want to globalise - does anyone ever ask us? How about freedom >> >> >> >>>> > from >> >> >> >>>> > work as means of income? >> >> >> >> >>>> > On 18 Nov, 14:11, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> >> I disagree, Andrew, and take a view more like Alan's. >> >> >> >>>> >> Globalization >> >> >> >>>> >> occurs when more folks operate from a world-centric life view >> >> >> >>>> >> (not >> >> >> >>>> ego- >> >> >> >>>> >> centric or ethno-centric), more countries are trading goods and >> >> >> >>>> >> services, and more folks have access to goods and services from >> >> >> >>>> other >> >> >> >>>> >> countries. This group is comprised of folks from many >> >> >> >>>> >> different >> >> >> >>>> parts >> >> >> >>>> >> of the world. A good example. >> >> >> >> >>>> >> On Nov 18, 4:09 am, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> >> >> >> >>>> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>> >> > Globalization is reverting to the ownership and control of >> >> >> >>>> everything world >> >> >> >>>> >> > wide by the few. That is the danger of it all. >> >> >> >> >>>> >> > On Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:41:31 PM UTC+1, Allan >> >> >> >>>> >> > Heretic >> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>> >> > > I think realistically globalization is revering to the >> >> >> >>>> >> > > access to >> >> >> >>>> >> > > everything world wide >> >> >> >>>> >> > > Allan >> >> >> >> >>>> >> > > On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:19 PM, rigsy03 >> >> ... >> >> read more ยป > > -- > > > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
