Not sure if it a shield (that separates), rather a dynamic of innocence (that unites) as we all have it in us. Sometimes it is buried in limitation or corruption. That "innocence" as you say, is simply the unlimited, or eternal in us. Simple recognition brings it forth. The rational view is indeed, important overall. I have felt myself to be the voice of reason more than once, and lately too. But it includes, and does not limit what is possible for me.
The diversity in this group has real value, to me anyway. So thank you my friends. On Nov 20, 3:04 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > It's hard to know how we cope Moll. I don't do it like you - but have > some kind of shield of innocence. Oliver Stone now says he was born > into being a consevative Republican who believed he was fighting > communism in Vietnam. Now he knows he was had by false history. Very > few people seem to realise our current paedophile panic is nothing > new, just another manifestation of our inability to grasp nettles. I > don't go for religion where the issues are clearly practical - its > rationalisation to me. > > On 20 Nov, 07:45, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > my view of the sacraments and rituals were far different years ago and > > do seethe importance of them.. you can buy the missal, actually all > > the official prayer books for your phone if you have android.. don't > > know about apple as I don't have one.. > > > I used to love the prayers and Mass,, then evolution of beliefs > > started again, with my vacation to Malta. An very interesting truth > > saw reveled since then it does not read the same.. > > > oddly though my beliefs have returned full circle from where I started > > 45+ years ago with a vision involving Jesus.. the The vision is still > > valid but my interpretation of "I am the way the light and the truth." > > has changed. > > > I am studying in a way the same thing.. The Buddhist teaching are > > very correct.. in the path of salvation,, (looked up a word, only to > > find it actually meant something different than what I had gained as > > its meaning,) It was said that in the years before Jesus started > > teaching he had traveled to India, I see tremendous similarities in > > his teachings and those of Buddha.. I also see the influence of > > people wanting a short cut to spirituality. > > > Though I never read or knew Merton I did have the privilege of > > talking with people that did know him.. I could not afford his books > > at the time. > > > Oddly I do believe with globalization and the greater access to > > knowledge, beliefs are starting to change again. I see it in myself > > and what is saw as the very core and foundation of belief. > > Alllan > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > My husband and I are both reading seven story mountain, and I bought a > > > few more for Christmas presents: No Man is an Island; New Seeds of > > > Contemplation; Contemplative prayer. I admire his translation of the > > > sacraments and rituals to internal processes. > > > > What is often missed, is that the notion of heaven on earth does not > > > ignore human shortcoming or suffering. It integrates and recognizes. > > > Like a Bodhisattva, joyfully participating in the sorrows of the > > > world. Allowing each his own, and knowing and feeling the connection > > > of all. I don't dwell in despair. That doesn't mean it does not exist > > > in the world. I work every day in downtown Detroit. And see much, > > > but don't worry about the wrong or right of it. I just work each day > > > in joy. People smile when they see (and feel) a genuine smile. > > > > On Nov 19, 3:45 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Molly which one of Merton's books are you reading .. he is quiet > > >> prolific.. > > >> Allan > > > >> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > I don't think that isolating like the Amish (who lead their > > >> > ethnocentric group with control measures) or focusing on the ills of > > >> > government, law enforcement or narrow economic pictures give a clear > > >> > picture of what globalization means to humanity. Ultimately, what is > > >> > seen in separation, separates us. I feel toward humanity as Thomas > > >> > Merton: > > > >> > "There is in all things an inexhaustible sweetness and purity, a > > >> > silence that is a fountain of action and joy. It rises up in wordless > > >> > gentleness and flows out of me from unseen roots of all created > > >> > beings." > > > >> > The unseen roots unite us, and globalization is spirit in action in > > >> > the "rising up." How this manifests in our view is largely dependent > > >> > on our own given focus. If it is dismal we need to feel, we will see > > >> > the dismal every time. It doesn't change the fact that heaven on > > >> > earth is ours for the taking. More spirit in action. > > > >> > "It doesn't matter which you heard, the holy or the broken > > >> > Hallelujah." Both holy and broken co-exist. Both are holy in the > > >> > unification. > > > >> > On Nov 19, 6:49 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> From my perspective this reborn metaphor is misleading, it leads you > > >> >> to the > > >> >> next level of happy self betrayal. The Amish community is a wonderful > > >> >> example of what it looks like when an evolving society allows a small > > >> >> group > > >> >> to conserve themselves in their own bubble and protects them from > > >> >> natural > > >> >> updating processes. I believe there is better ways to not forget the > > >> >> values > > >> >> of America's European history. > > > >> >> 2012/11/19 andrew vecsey <[email protected]> > > > >> >> > In my opinion opting out of their game is more like being reborn > > >> >> > than of > > >> >> > going to your own funeral. The less defendant we are on others or on > > >> >> > things, the more free we are. We have grown to be so defendant on > > >> >> > the > > >> >> > system that we are afraid that we can not survive without it. The > > >> >> > Amish > > >> >> > community is an example that clearly demonstrates that we can > > >> >> > survive and > > >> >> > even thrive without the system that I refer to as globalization. It > > >> >> > is > > >> >> > dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket. > > > >> >> > On Monday, November 19, 2012 11:39:27 AM UTC+1, gabbydott wrote: > > > >> >> >> It really is that simple. It is like going to your own funeral. > > > >> >> >> 2012/11/19 andrew vecsey <[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> With drugs and mass media they control our desires and with drugs > > >> >> >> and > > >> >> >>> schools they control our thinking. The only simple solution I can > > >> >> >>> think of > > >> >> >>> is not to play their game. Just refuse to buy what they offer to > > >> >> >>> sell. . > > > >> >> >>> On Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:47:11 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic > > >> >> >>> wrote: > > > >> >> >>>> globalization can be very beneficial and granted there are many > > >> >> >>>> self > > >> >> >>>> centered individuals and corporations that have that have little > > >> >> >>>> concern for others or our world.. but one thing that is coming > > >> >> >>>> out of > > >> >> >>>> it they can not control what people thing and desire their world > > >> >> >>>> to > > >> >> >>>> be.. Little by little I see people reclaiming the dreams of a > > >> >> >>>> better > > >> >> >>>> world. > > >> >> >>>> Oh well what can you expect from an old hippie > > >> >> >>>> Allan > > > >> >> >>>> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 7:43 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > > >> >> >>>> wrote: > > >> >> >>>> > Andrew is obviously right when one considers where our wealth > > >> >> >>>> > is > > >> >> >>>> > ending-up. This group is broadly parochial, white and barely > > >> >> >>>> > understands what it excludes and how. We are reliant on > > >> >> >>>> > centralised > > >> >> >>>> > technology that is soon to force us to a format we don't want. > > >> >> >>>> > Rigsy's question is about right. Previous globalisation was > > >> >> >>>> > colonising and I suspect most of what we are witnessing now is > > >> >> >>>> > in > > >> >> >>>> that > > >> >> >>>> > model. It would be good to make the move in emphasis Molly > > >> >> >>>> > suggests, > > >> >> >>>> > but the signs in the underlying business model indicate the > > >> >> >>>> > opposite > > >> >> >>>> > to me - currently remaining in advertising and making a > > >> >> >>>> > killing in > > >> >> >>>> > market share. There is another (dated) form of globalisation > > >> >> >>>> > in the > > >> >> >>>> > phrase 'workers of the world unite' and it must be clear this > > >> >> >>>> > has > > >> >> >>>> been > > >> >> >>>> > resisted by the powerful other than in their own 'guilds'. My > > >> >> >>>> > list > > >> >> >>>> on > > >> >> >>>> > what globalisation is would be long and rather vague - > > >> >> >>>> > including > > >> >> >>>> > teaching foreign students with bare English textbook answers I > > >> >> >>>> > kn ow > > >> >> >>>> > to be rot. James Bond has globalised but not decent water, > > >> >> >>>> > food and > > >> >> >>>> > housing for all - let alone freedom from the kind of idiots on > > >> >> >>>> > all > > >> >> >>>> > sides who keep such stuff as the Arab-Israeli conflict going. > > > >> >> >>>> > We need realistic optimism - but this means embracing really > > >> >> >>>> > bad news > > >> >> >>>> > on climate (worse than we think) and history (much worse than > > >> >> >>>> > we > > >> >> >>>> > think) in order to see how we get some decent stuff done > > >> >> >>>> > amongst the > > >> >> >>>> > enemies of open society. Globalisation is getting very real > > >> >> >>>> > in the > > >> >> >>>> > sense of telepresence (I could be operated on in Bolton by a > > >> >> >>>> > surgeon > > >> >> >>>> > in Madras) and other varieties of the embodiment of knowledge > > >> >> >>>> > that > > >> >> >>>> > will allow remote and even home manufacturing. > > > >> >> >>>> > Postmodernism (which I regard as the move to modernism we have > > >> >> >>>> > never > > >> >> >>>> > had) is bringing about a legitimation crisis. I am broadly > > >> >> >>>> > (but not > > >> >> >>>> > completely) free of the religious dross taught in youth and > > >> >> >>>> > chronic > > >> >> >>>> > copy-teachers who told me Julius Caesar invaded Britain in > > >> >> >>>> > 53AD and > > >> >> >>>> > that humans have 24 pairs of chromosomes like other apes. To > > >> >> >>>> discover > > >> >> >>>> > the extent of ideological dross in my education I travelled. > > >> >> >>>> > The > > >> >> >>>> > Internet's supposedly global reach does not even compare. > > >> >> >>>> > How could > > >> >> >>>> > anything be more parochial that Faceflop and Twatter? What > > >> >> >>>> > would be > > >> >> >>>> > want to globalise - does anyone ever ask us? How about > > >> >> >>>> > freedom from > > >> >> >>>> > work as means of income? > > > >> >> >>>> > On 18 Nov, 14:11, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> >>>> >> I disagree, Andrew, and take a view more like Alan's. > > >> >> >>>> >> Globalization > > >> >> >>>> >> occurs when more folks operate from a world-centric life view > > >> >> >>>> >> (not > > >> >> >>>> ego- > > >> >> >>>> >> centric or ethno-centric), more countries are > > ... > > read more » --
