You are right, Neil! It is only when we have a positive attitude that we struggle against all odds. So we should be positive and yet strong enough to endure the worst.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:32 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Detachment is tough to reconcile with action and its motivation RP. 'I > don't give a damn, therefore I will'? Politicians do a lot of deflating > aspiration in order that we be satisfied with their crumbs. Pre-selecting > defeat isn't a good thing, though one might take the depressive position > that the best to hope for is normal unhappiness! Do we give up a cricket > match after a disaster batting performance of 80 all out, the other side on > 72 for 2 and an hour to go - detach ourselves to the statistical likelihood > of defeat - or change the bowling and win the championship against all > statistical fate? One gets these little treats of triumph from time to > time. Depressing though, to think we need something as unlikely as this to > get rid of our corrupt world. Podemos, the Spanish left-wing party means > 'we can'. It should, of course, be an international movement we could all > vote for. > > > On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 4:18:14 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> So I conclude that detachment is not such a good thing and I would rather >> be positive with its chance of going into shock than to be indifferent to >> any outcome. >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 8:36 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Biologically we split fairly well into two temperaments as infants. >>> Detachment seems reasonable as an 'ideal type' RP - though it has also been >>> the excuse of 'fascist steel' and economists so stupid they imagine they >>> act by replicating the scientists' "objectivity" - a mythical state. Your >>> point was taken up by the Freud of 'Modernity and its Discontents' and the >>> split between the paranoid-schizoid and 'depressive' positions towards >>> life. Max Weber articulated the rational-legal position as against >>> charismatic fascism, but also worried about the iron cage of bureaucracy. >>> Heidegger and much eastern philosophy (which we have taken up in the West >>> with too much Greek modification and copying) focuses on what it is to be. >>> I'm more materialist at the beginning of analysis and think we need to >>> understand the big difference between what we can create with technology >>> and its business control. Veblen got to this, but his theory doesn't suit >>> the powerful. Around 1910 we had a lot of active political debate here on >>> democratic foreign policy (here people like ED Morel who unseated Churchill >>> in Dundee, Wallace in the US and Gandhi). Even the Nazis had socialists >>> who wanted a union of free workers across Europe. I think we can safely >>> say fascism in Weber's sense has won. The world remains run by oligarchies >>> who cut up the booty between them.. >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 1:33:23 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>> >>>> We can have a positive attitude or a negative attitude , but can we >>>> have a neutral attitude? >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:16 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have found that attachment to fruits of actions lead to much >>>>> heartbreak when the opposite of your expectation happens. It is written in >>>>> the Gita that a person should live in a state of detachment and be the >>>>> same >>>>> in the good or bad occurrences , I don't know if this is possible human >>>>> nature being what it is , but if we can reach this state I think we can be >>>>> better persons. Everything being history only actions are in our hands >>>>> including that of efforts to change ourselves , and the future is history. >>>>> If you are expecting good and something very bad happens it seems like a >>>>> shock and for some moment at least you lose your balance but if you are >>>>> detached to the fruits of actions you are in a state of coolness and not >>>>> shaken by the greatest calamity ever. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:44 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You have to accept before you do and if you cannot accept the process >>>>>> stops. You have to keep some framework in your conscious mind to keep a >>>>>> conscious check on yourself and it is not a creed but a way of living , >>>>>> trying to improve yourself as a person. Now what wrong could be there in >>>>>> having self-respect and not being arrogant , what wrong in not being >>>>>> greedy >>>>>> and not have anger issues. If you want to stop smoking you have to first >>>>>> take the decision to stop , then only can you give the effort. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:02 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't really do creed Allan. Found too many people who talk them >>>>>>> and mean none. Chris' statement is probably as close as I get, but this >>>>>>> soon doesn't work in practice. Doing no harm to others quickly proves >>>>>>> difficult. We do this in the West simply by living as we do, praying to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Lord or otherwise. In some philosophy, all speech has a hostile >>>>>>> element,as >>>>>>> does censorship on what can be said. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The first thing for me is evidence. This is an extremely difficult >>>>>>> topic. Molly's God is quite acceptable to me, but my evidence is not >>>>>>> direct. I only feel 'him' in her words (even this in evidence terms is >>>>>>> inadequate - 'words' - we have never met). >>>>>>> The next is probably what Allan is trying to do here. I have some >>>>>>> conception of myself as a person and the turmoil of my thought and >>>>>>> making >>>>>>> sense of stuff. Other people have often proved to have much better (and >>>>>>> much worse) ideas and been prepared to share them. George Kelly >>>>>>> springs to >>>>>>> my mind on this - http://www.centrepcp.co.uk/whatis.htm - and >>>>>>> personal construct theory. >>>>>>> I approve Allan's efforts here (though it's important to me he need >>>>>>> no such approval) - but immediately think we have a lot of material from >>>>>>> all over the world and hundreds of different cultures (there are this >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> on Papua New Guinea alone). What of the evidence we have from them, >>>>>>> against our predominantly 'white insularity'? >>>>>>> Evidence, imagination and trying to do the right thing. Read about >>>>>>> Socrates in Plato, but remember the fine words came from the free table >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> the head of a slave society. Hear about the Good Samaritan, but wonder >>>>>>> why >>>>>>> we still have a society of 'worthies' that just pass on by, perhaps to >>>>>>> their church of peace. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gabby doesn't live down a rabbit hole in Seven Acres Park Allan. I >>>>>>> thought she might not be answering the dogs' knocks because she doesn't >>>>>>> like me, so asked the woman with the ferrets (she is real) to have them >>>>>>> check. The world of imagination is such that when Gabbs says 'it >>>>>>> smells in >>>>>>> here' it could be because she has just come in, or she may be the little >>>>>>> child pointing out the Emperor is naked. Language is harder than we >>>>>>> think. I have 'one smart little cookie' in mind about Gabby. This >>>>>>> could be >>>>>>> chronic sexism, patronising, an insult to cookies - or a quick utter of >>>>>>> something I think that isn't quite that - or an offer to be beaten up by >>>>>>> politically correct bullies. Walk with me into the rabbit hole of !Kung >>>>>>> society - we would find no adult twins and we might ponder genetics - in >>>>>>> fact, infanticide is common in their tough world. Would we think badly >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> them? They have creed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It goes dark at night, therefore big bang. I prefer the way >>>>>>> scientists explain this to instruments of torture. Doing no harm to >>>>>>> others >>>>>>> collapses with je suis charlie. Religion sounds very selfish to me. Yet >>>>>>> one can admire Salvation Army people doing a soup run, despite their >>>>>>> views >>>>>>> on homosexuality. Would I kill the second born twin? Down the !Kung >>>>>>> rabbit hole I probably would as !Kung. So where does creed come from? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd like us to live in evidence based practice. Why we still speak >>>>>>> of creed in today's world of Public Relations appals me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, February 1, 2015 at 10:07:28 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Neil are you sure Cabbies hiding in a rabbit hole?? Would like the >>>>>>>> guidelines she and the rest of the ME following.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: Minds-Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 9:13 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Moral compass >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's difficult to boil something as complex as personal moral >>>>>>>> relativism down into some simple edicts. I suppose the closest I could >>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>> would be: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - If it harms none, do as you will. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope others doctrine their personal moral ideas to the >>>>>>>>> discussion. The more we have the better ,, that includes you Chris. >>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>> Neil. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 3:37 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Moral compass >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My moral compass >>>>>>>>> Don't fear anything , but use your reasoning faculty to do the >>>>>>>>> right thing. >>>>>>>>> do not covet but earn and save for the needs of yourself and >>>>>>>>> family. >>>>>>>>> Do not be lustful but be happy with your spouse. >>>>>>>>> Do not be arrogant but respect yourself and others. >>>>>>>>> Don't be angry but take care to do your duties. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you want a social experiment we need to set up moral >>>>>>>>>> guidelines from which to work.. if you disagree with them that is >>>>>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>>> ,, no problem.. just remember it really is a social experiment,, >>>>>>>>>> you need >>>>>>>>>> to come up with what your personal moral compass to replace it.. it >>>>>>>>>> is not >>>>>>>>>> a cut and paste exercise. My compass is around 500 created in >>>>>>>>>> length,, >>>>>>>>>> presentations should around that length. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My Compass: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Love the Allfather with my whole Soul & being... >>>>>>>>>> Love my neighbor as myself >>>>>>>>>> As I judge other so too will I be judge >>>>>>>>>> Do No Harm >>>>>>>>>> Avoid murder, rape or enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>> Avoid being enslaved by possessions >>>>>>>>>> ~~~※☆※~~~ >>>>>>>>>> Jesus said "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for >>>>>>>>>> all things are plain in the light of Heaven. For nothing hidden >>>>>>>>>> will not >>>>>>>>>> become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being >>>>>>>>>> uncovered." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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