It still remains far too tough to take on what matters though RP. Including chronic apathy and the learner-refuseniks.
On Wednesday, 4 February 2015 05:18:44 UTC, RP Singh wrote: > > You are right, Neil! It is only when we have a positive attitude that we > struggle against all odds. So we should be positive and yet strong enough > to endure the worst. > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:32 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Detachment is tough to reconcile with action and its motivation RP. 'I >> don't give a damn, therefore I will'? Politicians do a lot of deflating >> aspiration in order that we be satisfied with their crumbs. Pre-selecting >> defeat isn't a good thing, though one might take the depressive position >> that the best to hope for is normal unhappiness! Do we give up a cricket >> match after a disaster batting performance of 80 all out, the other side on >> 72 for 2 and an hour to go - detach ourselves to the statistical likelihood >> of defeat - or change the bowling and win the championship against all >> statistical fate? One gets these little treats of triumph from time to >> time. Depressing though, to think we need something as unlikely as this to >> get rid of our corrupt world. Podemos, the Spanish left-wing party means >> 'we can'. It should, of course, be an international movement we could all >> vote for. >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 4:18:14 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>> >>> So I conclude that detachment is not such a good thing and I would >>> rather be positive with its chance of going into shock than to be >>> indifferent to any outcome. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 8:36 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Biologically we split fairly well into two temperaments as infants. >>>> Detachment seems reasonable as an 'ideal type' RP - though it has also >>>> been >>>> the excuse of 'fascist steel' and economists so stupid they imagine they >>>> act by replicating the scientists' "objectivity" - a mythical state. Your >>>> point was taken up by the Freud of 'Modernity and its Discontents' and the >>>> split between the paranoid-schizoid and 'depressive' positions towards >>>> life. Max Weber articulated the rational-legal position as against >>>> charismatic fascism, but also worried about the iron cage of bureaucracy. >>>> Heidegger and much eastern philosophy (which we have taken up in the West >>>> with too much Greek modification and copying) focuses on what it is to be. >>>> >>>> I'm more materialist at the beginning of analysis and think we need to >>>> understand the big difference between what we can create with technology >>>> and its business control. Veblen got to this, but his theory doesn't suit >>>> the powerful. Around 1910 we had a lot of active political debate here on >>>> democratic foreign policy (here people like ED Morel who unseated >>>> Churchill >>>> in Dundee, Wallace in the US and Gandhi). Even the Nazis had socialists >>>> who wanted a union of free workers across Europe. I think we can safely >>>> say fascism in Weber's sense has won. The world remains run by >>>> oligarchies >>>> who cut up the booty between them.. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 1:33:23 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We can have a positive attitude or a negative attitude , but can we >>>>> have a neutral attitude? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:16 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have found that attachment to fruits of actions lead to much >>>>>> heartbreak when the opposite of your expectation happens. It is written >>>>>> in >>>>>> the Gita that a person should live in a state of detachment and be the >>>>>> same >>>>>> in the good or bad occurrences , I don't know if this is possible human >>>>>> nature being what it is , but if we can reach this state I think we can >>>>>> be >>>>>> better persons. Everything being history only actions are in our hands >>>>>> including that of efforts to change ourselves , and the future is >>>>>> history. >>>>>> If you are expecting good and something very bad happens it seems like a >>>>>> shock and for some moment at least you lose your balance but if you are >>>>>> detached to the fruits of actions you are in a state of coolness and not >>>>>> shaken by the greatest calamity ever. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:44 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You have to accept before you do and if you cannot accept the >>>>>>> process stops. You have to keep some framework in your conscious mind >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> keep a conscious check on yourself and it is not a creed but a way of >>>>>>> living , trying to improve yourself as a person. Now what wrong could >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> there in having self-respect and not being arrogant , what wrong in not >>>>>>> being greedy and not have anger issues. If you want to stop smoking you >>>>>>> have to first take the decision to stop , then only can you give the >>>>>>> effort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 2:02 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't really do creed Allan. Found too many people who talk them >>>>>>>> and mean none. Chris' statement is probably as close as I get, but >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> soon doesn't work in practice. Doing no harm to others quickly proves >>>>>>>> difficult. We do this in the West simply by living as we do, praying >>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>> Lord or otherwise. In some philosophy, all speech has a hostile >>>>>>>> element,as >>>>>>>> does censorship on what can be said. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The first thing for me is evidence. This is an extremely difficult >>>>>>>> topic. Molly's God is quite acceptable to me, but my evidence is not >>>>>>>> direct. I only feel 'him' in her words (even this in evidence terms >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> inadequate - 'words' - we have never met). >>>>>>>> The next is probably what Allan is trying to do here. I have some >>>>>>>> conception of myself as a person and the turmoil of my thought and >>>>>>>> making >>>>>>>> sense of stuff. Other people have often proved to have much better >>>>>>>> (and >>>>>>>> much worse) ideas and been prepared to share them. George Kelly >>>>>>>> springs to >>>>>>>> my mind on this - http://www.centrepcp.co.uk/whatis.htm - and >>>>>>>> personal construct theory. >>>>>>>> I approve Allan's efforts here (though it's important to me he need >>>>>>>> no such approval) - but immediately think we have a lot of material >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> all over the world and hundreds of different cultures (there are this >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>> on Papua New Guinea alone). What of the evidence we have from them, >>>>>>>> against our predominantly 'white insularity'? >>>>>>>> Evidence, imagination and trying to do the right thing. Read about >>>>>>>> Socrates in Plato, but remember the fine words came from the free >>>>>>>> table at >>>>>>>> the head of a slave society. Hear about the Good Samaritan, but >>>>>>>> wonder why >>>>>>>> we still have a society of 'worthies' that just pass on by, perhaps to >>>>>>>> their church of peace. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gabby doesn't live down a rabbit hole in Seven Acres Park Allan. I >>>>>>>> thought she might not be answering the dogs' knocks because she >>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>> like me, so asked the woman with the ferrets (she is real) to have >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> check. The world of imagination is such that when Gabbs says 'it >>>>>>>> smells in >>>>>>>> here' it could be because she has just come in, or she may be the >>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>> child pointing out the Emperor is naked. Language is harder than we >>>>>>>> think. I have 'one smart little cookie' in mind about Gabby. This >>>>>>>> could be >>>>>>>> chronic sexism, patronising, an insult to cookies - or a quick utter >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> something I think that isn't quite that - or an offer to be beaten up >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> politically correct bullies. Walk with me into the rabbit hole of >>>>>>>> !Kung >>>>>>>> society - we would find no adult twins and we might ponder genetics - >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> fact, infanticide is common in their tough world. Would we think >>>>>>>> badly of >>>>>>>> them? They have creed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It goes dark at night, therefore big bang. I prefer the way >>>>>>>> scientists explain this to instruments of torture. Doing no harm to >>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>> collapses with je suis charlie. Religion sounds very selfish to me. >>>>>>>> Yet >>>>>>>> one can admire Salvation Army people doing a soup run, despite their >>>>>>>> views >>>>>>>> on homosexuality. Would I kill the second born twin? Down the !Kung >>>>>>>> rabbit hole I probably would as !Kung. So where does creed come from? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd like us to live in evidence based practice. Why we still speak >>>>>>>> of creed in today's world of Public Relations appals me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 1, 2015 at 10:07:28 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Neil are you sure Cabbies hiding in a rabbit hole?? Would like >>>>>>>>> the guidelines she and the rest of the ME following.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: Minds-Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 9:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Moral compass >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's difficult to boil something as complex as personal moral >>>>>>>>> relativism down into some simple edicts. I suppose the closest I >>>>>>>>> could add >>>>>>>>> would be: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - If it harms none, do as you will. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I hope others doctrine their personal moral ideas to the >>>>>>>>>> discussion. The more we have the better ,, that includes you Chris. >>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>> Neil. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 3:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Moral compass >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My moral compass >>>>>>>>>> Don't fear anything , but use your reasoning faculty to do the >>>>>>>>>> right thing. >>>>>>>>>> do not covet but earn and save for the needs of yourself and >>>>>>>>>> family. >>>>>>>>>> Do not be lustful but be happy with your spouse. >>>>>>>>>> Do not be arrogant but respect yourself and others. >>>>>>>>>> Don't be angry but take care to do your duties. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want a social experiment we need to set up moral >>>>>>>>>>> guidelines from which to work.. if you disagree with them that is >>>>>>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>>>> ,, no problem.. just remember it really is a social experiment,, >>>>>>>>>>> you need >>>>>>>>>>> to come up with what your personal moral compass to replace it.. >>>>>>>>>>> it is not >>>>>>>>>>> a cut and paste exercise. My compass is around 500 created in >>>>>>>>>>> length,, >>>>>>>>>>> presentations should around that length. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My Compass: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Love the Allfather with my whole Soul & being... >>>>>>>>>>> Love my neighbor as myself >>>>>>>>>>> As I judge other so too will I be judge >>>>>>>>>>> Do No Harm >>>>>>>>>>> Avoid murder, rape or enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>>> Avoid being enslaved by possessions >>>>>>>>>>> ~~~※☆※~~~ >>>>>>>>>>> Jesus said "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for >>>>>>>>>>> all things are plain in the light of Heaven. For nothing hidden >>>>>>>>>>> will not >>>>>>>>>>> become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being >>>>>>>>>>> uncovered." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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