correction [Ron] Dmb, I feel it is important to Establish just what is meant by : Pre-intellect in relation to: 1. Pure experience 2. Pre-conceptual 3. Pre-reflective 4. symbol creation (culture?) 5. Symbol recognition (culture/conceptual?) 6. symbol manipulation (culture/conceptual/intellectual?)
Symbol and language can roughly be equated to mean the same thing, both are metaphors for immediate experience used for creating and understanding The world we live in. language being a more complex emergence of the former. When Pirsig termed INTELLECT as symbol manipulation for purposes of economy of thought, he kind of confused the issue of SOM. Does he term SOM as an intellectual pattern or a logic pattern? Are the two terms synonymous in this description? I see SOM as a social/cultural pattern as well. understanding how culture influences/shapes perception it also colors The concepts of organic and inorganic. So culture can be said to Create the world we experience. This being said, just where the hell does SOM leave off and pure experience begin? I loved your assessment: DMB: Mead is saying that our "linguistic structures ..are not 'free floating' constructions" but rather that they are "ultimately rooted in the ..universe in which we are embedded". These structures grow out of the universe as an emergent property, one that can't be reduced to the structures from which they spring. And here Mead is parallel to Pirsig in asserting that there are levels of reality and that these levels exist together in an evolutionary relationship - and that we are all those levels at once. [Ron] It seems plain to me that SOM is a great deal more than an intellectual pattern in our present western culture it has fused with the culture. I think this is why it can be traced linearly in time as an intellectual pattern but not conceptually because it has become enmeshed in the culture. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
