Hi Krim Sure there are internal and external experiences in the sense that some stuff is public and other stuff is private. But it is all experience for MOQ, and all either SQ or DQ. The distinction private/public matches poorly to subject/object and the latter can be dropped as a metaphysical distinction between forms of experience as MOQ suggests.
David M ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > Ron said: > Matt, if Quality is reality which equates to experience is reality, > Would you agree that pre-intellect would equate to pre-experience > At this angle? > > > Matt: > No, I don't think so. I'm not sure what angle you're at, but > pre-intellect > being pre-experience sounds like idealism, the kind Pirsig flirted with in > his discourse on ghosts in the beginning of ZMM, because if experience is > reality, then before intellect there was nothing. I don't think that's > right. One of the things we know about the world, through experience, is > that it's been around a lot longer than us, language and a lot of other > things. > > Ron: > But it might be a property of any organism which use any symbol system to > understand their environment. It would be a matter of complexity. > > We are going to have to define intellect as more than symbol manipulation. > It must be defined in terms of abstract thought application OR SOMETHING. > > Thoughts? > > [Krimel] > I think you are really close to target here Ron. Pre-intellectual means > before intellectual. We know what this is. As I have indicated in the past > sensation precedes perception. Sensation is the activation of the sensory > nervous system. These nervous impulses are processed by the brain. One of > the first steps in the process occurs in the limbic system which is the > mid > brain or the mammalian brain. This is where experience acquires emotional > content. Emotions appear to be universal in mammals. Certainly human > emotions are universal in humans both in their physiological content and > in > their expression. > > I think calling this pre-intellectual processing "pure" or even special is > a > bit of a stretch. > > I also find refreshing, Matt's insistence that the world exists outside > our > skins. I have wasted way too much time on this point. I am curious though > as > to how the distinction between subject and object can be dissolved when we > experience such a total distinction between our internal states and > exterior > events. These do impress me as fundamentally different ways of knowing and > understanding the world and ourselves. > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
