Hey Bo, I posted this too, but haven't heard a
response from you so, I'm sending this again.
> [Bo]
> > I have always said that Pirsig is vague on this
> > issue, he wavers
> > back and forth between SOM as a corruption of the
> > intellectual
> > level and the intellectual level as the S/O
> > distinction which is the
> > correct notion IMO. (p 48 in my digital LILA).
>
>
> [SA currently]
> Hey Plato! Did you ever hear of change?
>
>
>
> [Bo]
> > Now, it should be stated at this point that the
> Metaphysics
> > of Quality supports this dominance of intellect
> > over society. It says intellect is a higher level
> of
> > evolution than society; therefore, it is a more
> moral level
> > than society.
>
>
> [SA currently]
> Read the quote again, as Ian suggested. The
> S/O
> distinction is an immoral corruption of the society,
> a
> genetic defect.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > It is better for an idea to destroy a society than
> > it is for a society to destroy an idea.
>
>
>
> [SA currently]
> That's correct. This society is being
> destroyed,
> I for one can speak for the U.S. culture that is
> stuck
> in an S/O dominated society. If you want to help
> heal
> society change your intellect.
>
>
>
> [Bo]
> > Intellect's purpose is to dominate society. This
> far
> > we all agree.
>
>
> [SA currently]
> Sure, and the inorganic level can wipe
> everything
> out. Lose the foundation of any level, and the top
> levels collapse. If destruction is the way this
> society is to go, then warnings, such as the pre-WW1
> warnings, are happening again.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > However the "idea" definition muddles things,
> there
> > surely are
> > social ideas that undermines intellectual ideas,
>
>
>
> [SA currently]
> From the foundational levels the levels on top
> can arise.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > But having said this, the Metaphysics of
> Quality
> > goes on
> > to say that science, the intellectual pattern
> > that has been
> > appointed to take over society, has a defect
> in
> > it. The
> > defect is that subject-object science has no
> > provision for morals.
>
>
> [SA currently]
> You got it. S/O intellectual patterns have no
> provision for morals, just as your SOL
> interpretation
> has no provision for morals in any of the static
> patterns.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > Who has appointed "science" to dominate society
> > (which is short
> > for "social value") if not science (or SOM) is the
> > best intellectual
> > pattern to fulfill intellect's purpose?
>
>
> [SA currently]
> S/O science disregards value and morals as false
> and non-existent.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > I can't for the life of me figure
> > out what a level is besides its value,...
>
>
> [SA currently]
> A level is a tool, but if the ratchet doesn't
> fit, for there is no Plato eternal fixation going on
> in the moq, then use a different tool to understand.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > unless one is so mired in SOM that the term
> "intellect" conjures up
> > intellect's (while SOM) own "intellect": A mental
> compartment where > symbols are manipulated.
>
>
> [SA currently]
> Your English is not coming through here very
> well. This is a sincere statement.
>
>
> [Bo quoting here]
> > To complete the passage.
> > Subject-object science is only concerned with
> > facts.
>
>
> [SA currently]
> Yeap.
>
>
> [Bo continues]
> > Morals have no objective reality. You can
> look
> > through a
> > microscope or telescope or oscilloscope for
> the
> > rest of
> > your life and you will never find a single
> > moral. There
> > aren't any there. They are all in your head.
> > They exist
> > only in your imagination. From the perspective
> > of a
> > subject-object science, the world is a
> > completely
> > purposeless, valueless place.
>
>
> [SA currently]
> Your SOL interpretation is therefore a
> "completely purposeless, valueless place."
>
>
> [Bo]
> > This is correct and describes SOM before Pirsig's
> > MOQ that
> > turned this destructive force into a great - but
> > domesticated - value level. .
>
>
> [SA currently]
> There you go, now let the value come forth as
> dharmakaya light as intellectual patterns are, as
> well
> as, all static patterns and dynamic quality.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > "Intellect and society is immoral and valueless"?
>
>
> [SA currently]
> That's what you profess. That's your SOL S/O
> interpretation of Quality. I feel empathy. Let's
> change this S/O intellect into an intellect of
> quality
> in which it truly is in the first place anyways.
>
>
> [Bo]
> > OK, no level knows anything about being a level,
> it
> just knows
> > its value and pursues it relentlessly.
>
>
=== message truncated ===
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