> > [Platt quotes Pirsig]
> > > "The paralysis of America is a paralysis of
> moral patterns. Morals can't
> > > function normally because morals have been
> declared intellectually illegal
> > > by the subject-object metaphysics that dominates
> > > present social thought."
> > > (Lila, 24)
> > This looks like Bo's SOL interpretation.
[Bo]
> You bet, and here you see another demonstration of
> how Pirsig
> originally regarded the intellectual LEVEL. Clearly
> as SOM where
> "morals" (values or quality) are illegal in the
> sense of non-
> existing. Nothing about a villain called SOM who has
> corrupted a
> mental compartment called "intellect".
Bo, how does this quote say "Nothing about a
villain called SOM..."? The quote says, "morals (are)
illegal... by 'SOM' that dominates present social
thought." Bo, you are explicitly stating here, that
YOU have an immoral intellect, and morals are illegal.
No wonder your having difficulty with this. Bo, open
up to an moq intellect and a moral perspective will
notice that an S/O perspective is doing damage to
society. Society is immoral the more an S/O
perspective is used. I think that's what your trying
to point out, but this is why many have taken on a
different approach founded by Pirsig, and we try to
discuss what a moral intellect is. With a moral
intellect we can change the "paralysis of America".
[SA previously]
> > Bo interprets the intellectual level as
> "subject-object" and Bo states
> > that S/O dominates the social level. Bo states
> S/O is intellectual 4th
> > level, and the 3rd level is social level, and 4 is
> hierarchical higher
> > than 3. So, Bo is interpreting an intellectual
> level as the SOL interpretation. Thus, Bo is
supporting an
> intellect in which "...moral(s) have been declared
intellectually
> illegal by the subject-object metaphysics that
dominates present
> social thought.", due, to Bo supporting an S/O
intellect.
[Bo]
> Very good, its just a couple of points missing,
> first the reason for
> the social nightmare that Pirsig describes, namely
> that the fourth
> level is blind to the Q context and suppresses
> social value relentlessly to the point that Pirsig
describes as
> pulling the rug from under itself.
You really do support an immoral intellect. I
figured I hit the target on this one so much, that you
would be afraid to respond back or something. So,
"...the fourth level is blind to the Q context and
suppresses social value...", many of us understand
this, and we have moved on to try to 'make the blind
see'. We are trying to heal ones intellect. We are
doctors trying to help compassionately open ones
perspective to morals, values, and a better quality of
life that is right here, right now, ready for the
living.
[SA previously]
> > Bo has not yet been able to interpret an intellect
> that is morally
> > supportive. Bo only recognizes an S/O intellect
> that finds morals
> > illegal. It seems Platt does too.
[Bo]
Then the next point is that the MOQ reveals the true
level relationship, something that takes intellect
down from its lofty SOM position to the humble place
as the 4th static level. For the highest static value
it is, society needs being checked lest we have a
Taleban-like society on our hands. After all Europe
was like that until intellect took over. But with the
S/O value subordinate to the overall MOQ it does its
proper job, no more no less.
How does an immoral, paralysis inducing S/O value
do a "proper job"? Quality is reality. Bo, from what
your saying here, your intellect is outside of
reality. Your intellect, or your interpretation of
intellect, is outside of a quality reality and is
immoral. That's a dilemma. That's real suffering. I
feel empathy for you Bo.
I've been reading the guidebook to ZMM for the
first time in the last couple weeks, and I'm reading
about the 'will to power'/'will to truth' section.
And if I use this 'will to truth' interpretation and
change it up a bit, I'd say this is exactly what drove
me to discuss with Ham, Platt, and now you Bo. It
seems to be what drives many people to discuss with
you three. At this point, it would seem not Platt
anymore, he's changed somewhat since he took this last
long break. But my 'will to peace' is what drives me.
I feel compassion in the face of such
misunderstandings that Ham and it would seem you Bo
have. Bo, you seem to be on the right path in trying
to solve the dilemma of S/O by placing an moq level
above the fourth. Yet, I feel this disruption. The
intellect is not quiet, I sense no peace of mind with
an intellect that is S/O. As quoted and said above,
an S/O intellect is immoral and is the current social
dilemma. This is what drives me to discuss with you.
I'm trying to help you. This is probably why we don't
have long discussions between people on this forum
that agree with each other. Many of us have this will
to help, we really want to help society and help
people see the light and notice that intellect can
help morally induce values that can bring a better
quality of life all people need to do is wake-up and
notice it is here and now.
[Bo]
> Thanks Spirit for understanding it so well. No small
> feat around
> this place of so many philosophical giants who
> aren't here to
> discuss the MOQ - not even interpretations of it -
> but their own ideas and pet philosophers.
Bo, it seems to me, that your pointing out
dilemmas about the S/O, and have not yet been trying
to rid these dilemmas of S/O. Many are trying to
resolve these dilemmas, and notice the morals and
values that Pirsig points out is reality. With your
intellect outside of reality, and not yet able to
notice morals and values, and your intellect is
immoral and valueless (this is what your saying above,
not me, you are), then that's why I feel empathy for
you, and others that are deeply bogged down and stuck
in an immoral, valueless unreality. This are exactly
the kind of people I work with and try to show that a
peace of mind clarifies this world that is truly
peaceful.
woods,
SA
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