Gav writes to David M -- > Try this. Experience is all subjective, or subjectivity is the > wholeness of experience. You cannot take the subject out > of experience. SOM tries to divide experience and identify > non-subject aspects. This is impossible because it is all > experience. We can call this quality instead. Now quality > can be shown to contain dynamic/new/emergent non-patterned > aspects that's DQ, and the patterned SQ parts of experience > is what SOM calls objects in the main, but sometimes > subject-ive if the patterns are not describable in terms of matter. > > MOQ says SOM is a mess, better to just see the patterns > and the dynamic aspects of experience and stop trying to > divide the patterns into subjective and objective ones as > this is a confused distinction. And it's all quality-experience, > none of it can be called non-quality-experience, so what use is > the SOM distinction?
David comments to Gav -- > You know I can't think of a good reason not to call DQ > sacred, perhaps our highest value. I get the fear about the > negative aspects of religion, but I am also sure that why > we invent religion is because DQ is awesome and impressive. > Religion goes badly wrong, but so does SOM, freedom, > democracy, sugar, all SQ, but don't mean we'd prefer > nothing, the good has to be distinguished from the bad, > such is quality. Either I'm getting soft-headed in my old age, or you guys are starting to make sense! Now, if only Dave could see that he's answered Gav's rhetorical question, "so, what use is the SOM distinction?" by his statement "the good has to be distinguished from the bad, such is quality." Replace "quality" with "value" and you've just described the morality of Essentialism. I can't help but believe I've had some influence in these conclusions. (By the way David, you'll be pleased to hear that I've just ordered Maxwell's book from Amazon. I intend to focus on what he WANTS to achieve, not how we wants Science to do it.) Essentially yours, Ham Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
