Steve and Gav. 23 Jan. you wrote:
> Steve: > Religions' claims that are to be accepted on faith are not only in > conflict with the claims made by science. They are in conflict with > the claims made by other religions. If Christianity is true, Islam is > false and vice versa. They can't all be true because they all say that > the others are false, but they can all be false. This was a gem, I'm still chuckling and will abstain from adding anything as not to spoil the razor-sharp point. Gav had said: > >faith is a knowledge born of transcendent experience. > >the intellect can only reflect upon this experience. > >the experience itself, the nature of the experience is > >the empirical 'data'. A transcendent experience (TE) for a Muslim makes him/her know Allah better. The classic Christian TE made the mystics know God's plans. These are the immense force of the social bonds that the MOQ reveals. It also reveals that intellect has its own bonds, no less powerful, that determines TEs. Renè Descartes had the revelation (after a long period of doubt) that he existed because a he was a thinking being. The scientist who found the benzene molecular configuration had a vision of dancing rings - not dancing angels. No, intellect does not merely reflect (this is intellect's own pompous view) Intellect is a a value level that creates its own reality and its own TEs. See Pirsig's revelation resulted in an intellectual-based insight so extraordinarily "transcendent" that it could not be contained by intellect. We will soon start having Quality-based TEs. ;-) IMO Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
