On Monday 17 March 2008 1231 PM Krimel writes to Joe: [Joe] IMO Consciousness, proprietary awareness, is the level of evolution I call the social level. Evolution is a bit of a stretch. For Aristotle in order to have a word in mind ³intentional existence² existence only in the mind, by abstraction, was the key to capture the essence of the existing item out ofthe world of ideas. SOM is unscientific. [Krimel] My chief point is that consciousness is a product of evolution not its cause. Where you pinpoint the emergence of consciousness is of far less concern to me. [Joe] An individual turtle is neat, but what can it do? I am not compelled to use something I am capable of. Yet if mankind is evolving the record might be historically important, especially if there is a learning curve. [Joe] In defense of Aristotle, there was no reason in Aristotle¹s approach to knowledge to account for levels of evolution so he felt OK about ³intentional existence². Now evolution accepts levels of existence from lower to higher and vice-versa. It is not the thing that changes, but a higher or lower existence gives it higher or lower values which can change the thing. Esoteric literature is the only place where I have seen a complete description of evolution exemplified by the musical octave. It is called a law of order, also a law of shocks, since not all the intervals are equal. Pirsig saw evolution in his own way. [Krimel] I think wave lengths are a good metaphor whether of light or sound or water they displace both continuity and discrete intervals. Still I am no fan of esoteric literature. I would say for example that astronomers make better use of wave lengths than astrologers. [Joe] I do not think there has been a full description of human evolution. I would not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. [Joe] To discuss ³consciousness² in psychological terms it stands in contrast to ³mechanical². Nicoll gives the example of a young child given a pear with an ugly worm in it. He becomes afraid. If this is repeated there is a good chance the child will never like pears. This dislike is mechanical for the child. How useful is using ³conscious² and ³mechanical² when discussing the glasses culture hands us! [Krimel] Perhaps even especially here I would say consciousness is organic not mechanical. It allows the evaluation of circumstance and change in response accordingly; as opposed to a mechanical invariant response to programmed sets of events. [Joe] A sentient has organs certainly which respond and change. Commenting on the possibility of changing a value in existence like evolution requires a vocabulary. IMO conscious/mechanical is a better analogy than SO. A damaged brain like Schiavo¹s does not explore the full possibilities of a conscious/mechanical split in the existence the organ perceives, nor does Kant¹s whole brain. [Joe] The eyeglasses that culture hands us are ³mechanical². Is ³mechanical² a useful term for discussing cultural behavior? The nation is composed of individuals. Are there mechanical nations, mechanical wars, mechanical societies, mechanical individuals? How widespread? [Krimel] Again I think mechanical is a view best left to the past two centuries. Culture obeys the same laws of evolution as species do. The glasses change and adapt as each new individual tries them on and uses them. They are not fixed they are growing. [Joe] ³Culture² and ³species² evolve differently. I do not think the law is the same. A static and evolving culture indicates stable or changing behavior in a changing environment. Maybe culture is an analogy to evolution, a change in appearance, like changing my glasses. Nah! Evolution means more than that. [Joe] Evolution changes laws. Evolution changes existence. Laws of existence are laws of change. The existence of a culture resides in the individuals. IMO that is too great a dependency on chance. Everything becomes meaningless in that metaphysics.
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