Matt said:
What is an idea if not words? I think the idea that ideas are
pre-linguistic
is a remnant of SOM.
Krimel said:
What are words if not symbols for ideas? I am not at all sure how the
notion
of pre-linguistic or even a-linguistic ideation is a remnant of SOM.
Matt:
Well, first think of it this way: I say ideas are words, you say there
are
ideas _and_ words. In terms of ontology, you have two categories to my
one
and by Ockham's Razor, choosing the simplest explanation, my single
category
would win out.
That's, naturally, the beginning of a conversation as I'm trying to
thrust
the burden of proof on you. Why do we _need_ the idea of an "idea"
that's
distinct from words?
[Krimel]
Joy, sorrow and disgust are all ideas that can easily and effectively be
communicated with or without words. The fact that they both exist and
can be
communicated in the absence of words suggests that they are
ontologically
distinct from words.
Ron:
Craig brings up a valid subject that even the display of emotion may be
contextual in meaning. So I must disagree that a contextual structure is
Not required to communicate. Meaning always requires context. The Maori
Express anger and hostility to welcome guests. I've known folks to
express
Joy through weeping. Anger through silence. Disgust through laughter.
Plains-spoken to me, means cutting the linguistic superfluous styles
And communicating honestly and carefully. Meaning is key. To assume a
stance
Or a style can be chancy and may jeopardize the meaning you are trying
To convey. Out on the plains or in the wild, one can not afford
miscommunication because it can mean your life. Those who survive
Everyday, not just live but survive, take meaning very seriously.
Linguistic style is like putting lace on a terd to them.. They are
immediately suspicious of the content.
Like Matt eluded to, cloaking meaning in style may be a linguistic
Game to some, or a device to express a concept and not take direct
Responsibility for the meaning implied. Plains-folk call that
"chicken shit". It is certainly valued differently in different
Contexts. You just take more of a risk in certain situations.
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