Arioch:
It is taken then, that thy Bolshevik revolution o 1917 moral to thee in
thy theory.
Marxism being thy intellectual sudueing thy tyrranous czar collective
regime.
Platt:
No. It isn't moral to replace a tyranny with another tyranny. (I don't know
why I ever bother to answer.)
Andre:
Arioch, you have opened up an interesting angle on the workings of
Int.PoV's. I have argued in previous posts that a socialist doctrine, no
matter how highly worked out intellectually, belongs with social PoV's.
Platt, I agree with what you say; that it is immoral for one tyranny to be
replaced by another tyranny.
Lenin has used clever wording to denote something and justify atrocities
committed:
Leninist organizations' constitutions have typically defined the following
key principles of democratic centralism:
1. Election of all party organs from bottom to top and systematic
renewal of their composition, if needed.
2. Responsibility of party structures to both lower and upper
structures.
3. Strict and conscious discipline in the party?the minority must
obey the majority until such time as the policy is changed.
4. Decisions of upper structures are mandatory for the lower
structures.
5. Cooperation of all party organs in a collective manner at all
times, and correspondingly, personal responsibility of party members for the
assignments given to them and for the assignments they themselves create.
It gives the appearance of democracy at work and in its name commit crimes.
What I have been following over the past few weeks on this Discuss is the
self same objections about an intellectual pattern going of on its own and
virtualy doing what it likes in the name of freedom, freedom of speech
(always used separately),human rights etc.
I am referring here to your own experiece in America. And it appears to me
that what you are hearing , seeing and feeling IS NOT REPRESENTED BY ANY
HUMAN BEING AT ALL! It creates what it wants to justify and justifies what
it has created in the name of intellect.
Is this still pointing to the problem, raised 10 years ago in TLS, about the
intellectual level? Which has not satisfactorily been resoled ( as far as I
am aware).
I mean, this intellectual level does not reflect any understanding of and
harmony with its parent social level.
Posts constantly highlight 'dominance, conflict,subjugation,struggle with
its 'lower' level. 'Breaking free' from its dominance,... and given this
train of thought create fantasies about the wonderfull capabilities and
possibilities of what can be achieved if only we let the intellectual
level reign free.
You have chided me sometimes for being a protagonist/protector of the social
level, perhaps to the point of being naive about it. Point taken! But I do
feel and say it again: if social PoV's are a mess you can bet your bottom
dollar that its offspring, the Int. PoV's are messy as well and I think
precisely because Int. PoV's still have not gotten used to the idea of
Quality and its subdivision DQ/SQ!
Int. PoV's are still battling with this basic question:
'And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good-
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
I am hearing people in this discuss using ( I'd rather say: abusing) the
MoQ to wreak havoc on this planet, a justification to blast away anything
and everything that does not fit their ideas of what 'should' be in the name
of Int. PoV's. In the name of freedom etc. etc. I will tell you straight
out: you have no idea what freedom is! Absolutely not!
It is an experience that cannot be described in words. It is Quality, the
appreciation of which you cannot comprehend without having suffered. Pirsig
says something about that.He is absolutely correct.
Our Int. PoV's are not mature enough yet, to carry the incredible
responsibility of the implications and the prospects of this MoQ way of
thinking.
I believe we should go back to basics and appreciate what each level has
done for the other level, how we can latch each level's achievements with
plenty of tlc's and build from there. As Pirsig points out, our intellect is
only a few thousand years young. In Khoo's terms...less than a blip.
Intellectually we still have an awfull long way to go.
I'll get out of your way now, I'll see ya later.
Andre
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