Hi Joseph --
IMO There are two ways to speak of the "undefined":
1. I don¹t know what you are talking about, you haven¹t defined your
terms.
2. It is impossible to define DQ: Defined words are SQ. SOM makes a
distinction between Mind and Matter, and calls it S/O. For Pirsig that
was
incorrect, there is no such distinction. ...
There IS such a distinction, and it is absurd to ignore it or "pretend" it
away. We are all 'beings-aware'.
Philosophers define 'concepts' not things. Pirsig didn't define Quality
because, as he said, "we all know what it is." I don't attempt to define
Essence, not because we know what it is, but because the absolute is not
definable (i.e., not reducible to finite terms). However, that doesn't stop
me from explaining the meaning of the term, the use of analogy, and useful
connotations (like Cusa's "not-other") that allow us to construct logical
syllogisms for it.
[Responding to Ham's use of "objective" for existence]:
I am suspect about the term "objective" representing the totality of
experiential existence. You are assuming a metaphysics and arguing
for its veracity. You deny experiential existence to the (subjective)
by declaring it is outside of "beingness". The (subjective) undefined
is not outside "beingness" as analogy and metaphor show.
Objective is a common reference to that which lies outside of experience.
In ontology, "inside" and "outside" are synonomous. That is, the world we
experience IS is the objective world. It is actualized by a synthesis of
value-awareness and intellection. I don't understand the meaning of
"assuming a metaphysics". Metaphysics is one of various theoretical
ontologies that explain the fundamental principles of reality, including but
not limited to, the physical (empirical) world. I "assume" the metaphysics
of Essence by virtue of my belief in it. I do not "deny' (subjective)
experience; I simply don't consider "beingness" its essence or foundation.
Awareness and Beingness are of two different modalities of existence, like
space and time. Together (as being-aware) they make possible what neither
alone can create -- a universal system that is realized by an individuated
agent.
[Ham, previously]:
It represents the "being" contingent of "being-aware". Everything we define
and describe in the objective world has to do with being, whether it's our
physical body, the changing seasons, or the history of mankind..
[Joe]
The above description is also true of the subjective. Being asleep, or
being awake is another matter. I am a sleep-walker, rarely am I aware of
why I do something. In my habits I am asleep.
Yes, and being dead or insensible is another option. Yet, we can't say that
existence is all subjective, as it would make conscious awareness the
primary reality. Likewise, if it were all objective there could be no
awareness, which defies what is self-evident.
Truth does not depend on the abilities of the reader to understand. ...
It does if Truth is to be accessible and realized by the reader. Unrealized
Truth, like unrealized value, is a meaningless absurdity.
Metaphysics is not as exciting as mathematics. To say it is more
difficult
to talk about indefinably experienced entities like my behavior, as
opposed
to electrons speeding around a nucleus at the speed of light is debatable.
I can't compare metaphysics with the mathematics applied to quantum physics.
That's an apples-and-pears
comparison.
I appreciate your candor. I am reluctant to place self-awareness outside
of
metaphysics. That is why I find the analogy Conscious/mechanical a good
analogy for my behavior to throw further light on DQ/SQ.
Joe, there's no reason to consider self-awareness outside of metaphysics. I
suspect you're confusing the menu with the food again. Metaphysics is a
theory of Reality -- all of it. It's not Reality itself. Thus, the MoQ is
a reality theory based on Quality. SOM is a reality theory based on
experience. Essentialism is a reality theory based on Essence.
I appreciate your candor, as well. Apart from the semantics, I don't sense
any real disagreement.
Thanks, Joe.
--Ham
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