Hi Marsha, Thanks for the link
Joe On 3/29/09 1:21 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Plain-Simple-Steve-Hagen/dp/0767903323/ref=sr_1 > _1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238358043&sr=1-1 > > > > > > > At 03:54 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: >> On Saturday 28 March 2009 9:04 PM Markhsmit writes to Joe: >> >> Hi Joe, >>> >>> I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality. >>> This would imply to me that new Quality is being formed, Quality >>> that did not exist before. Has Quality evolved in the last 5000 >>> years? I am seriously asking this because it does not fit with my >>> current understanding, which may be erroneously Eastern (like the >>> Tao) at this point.. I am rereading Lila which may help me out. My >>> conception of harmony is the temporary coalescence of Quality. This >>> coalescence and dissipation is ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of >>> thing, rather than growth. >>> >>> Thanks, >> >> Hi Markhsmit, and All, >> >> I will ask you a question. What tool are you using to try to understand the >> evolution of quality? SOM posits a distinction between body and mind, >> between real existence and intentional existence. Evolution of quality is >> not understandable using a metaphysics based on a mind/body division. >> >> MOQ proposes an evolutionary law of order. Each manifestation in evolution >> combines DQundefined/SQdefined. The existence of the evolutionary order is >> real, not the supposed intentional existence created by a mind to give >> reality to an idea of order. An inorganic rock exists in a different >> evolutionary order from an organic flower. Time is not creative in >> cataloguing change, e,g, give it time. Space does not create dimensions.. >> >> These are my thoughts as I discuss a metaphysics of quality, MOQ. >> >> Joe >> >> On 3/28/09 9:04 PM, "markhsmit" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality. This >>> would imply to me that new Quality is being >> formed, Quality that did not exist >>> before. Has Quality evolved in the last 5000 years? I am seriously asking >>> this because it does not fit with my current understanding, which may >>> be erroneously Eastern (like the Tao) at this point.. I am rereading Lila >>> which may help me out. My conception of harmony is the >>> temporary coalescence of Quality. This coalescence and dissipation is >>> ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of thing, rather than growth. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Willblake2 >>> >>> >>> On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:25:30 AM, "Joseph >> Maurer" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> From: "Joseph Maurer" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [MD] Quality and Free Will >>> Date: March 28, 2009 10:25:30 AM PDT >>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> On Friday 27 March 2009 10:36 PM Markhsmit writes: >>> >>> <snip> >>>> Why does Quality trend towards harmony, or growth, or being in >>>> phase? That is obvious. The intense love between between two >>>> people is the sharing and harmonic growth of Quality. Quality loves >>>> itself, it runs with the pack. >>> >>>> Is there anybody out there to harmonize with this post? >>> >>> Hi Markhsmit, >>> >>> The existence of quality also evolves to distinct levels. That makes >>> harmony possible. Different levels of existence. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/27/09 10:34 PM, "markhsmit" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Joe, >>>> >>>> That's exactly what I meant! Nothing (left) to lose, not even Bobby.. >>>> >>>> Quality (as expressed through free will) >> trends towards harmonics (for lack >>>> of >>>> a better word). This harmony has no human >> value associated with it, it can >>>> be bad or good, beautiful or ugly. It attracts and connects, reverberates >>>> and >>>> grows in a crowd. It is the reason for the crowd, and then it subsides. >>>> Quality is like a wave, when it meets similar waves of itself, it is >>>> additive (does not cancel) and Quality >> Grows. Take for example an orchestra >>>> playing in the same key, the individual music is additive and intoxicating >>>> for >>>> the players and crowd (who add to the growth of the Quality). Take for >>>> example a group of people enjoying a hike, the Quality shared between is >>>> additive, its much more fun to share. Quality is additive in a football >>>> stadium amongst the crowd, and is additive >> in a panic during a fire. Quality >>>> seeks this harmony. Harmonic Quality is present during a presidential >>>> election, and on a battlefield to the >> death. Harmonic Quality is the reason >>>> religions and philosophies grow. It is the reason for communal greed >>>> and possessiveness, for the shared fear of death. >>>> >>>> Quality is shared through the exchange of ideas, it can be considered >>>> contagious except that it is not passed >> along, but is the source. Language >>>> is >>>> the vector for exchange. Ever meditated with a group of monks? >>>> It's incredible. That is the harmonic >> growth of Quality. It's how Quality >>>> trends. We know when we are in this group >> Quality, we feel swept away, part >>>> of a larger thing. We know exactly what it is. We stick together and >>>> consider our Quality to be better than those >> others, it is the way it works. >>>> We seek like-minded because of this >> tendency of Quality. Our free will, is >>>> to grow that wave, or not. >>>> >>>> Quality is the reason mass is condensed energy; it is energy, (or atoms if >>>> you >>>> will) in harmony. Quality is the reason the sun coalesces into a ball of >>>> flame, and why the planets circle together >> continuously (resembling a wave, >>>> mathematically). It is the reason galaxies >> spiral. It is action shared, it >>>> is in harmony, because that is its tendency. >>>> >>>> Quality arrises from nowhere. Where is the >> wave on a guitar string before it >>>> is plucked? the music? The same place >> Quality is. The string is struck and >>>> sound comes forth, in the same way the wave of Quality appears out of >>>> nowhere. >>>> When guitar strings mix, you have music, if >> it fits together (like minded) >>>> it >>>> grows. Where are the waves on a still >> lake. They are there as potential.. >>>> Where is the electron when it is not there? It is there, it is simply a >>>> flat >>>> wave (straight line), but there. Where am I when I'm not here? It's the >>>> same >>>> thing. >>>> >>>> Why does Quality trend towards harmony, or >> growth, or being in phase? That >>>> is >>>> obvious. The intense love between between two people is the sharing and >>>> harmonic growth of Quality. Quality loves itself, it runs with the pack.. >>>> >>>> Is there anybody out there to harmonize with this post? >>>> >>>> Oh, well... >>>> >>>> Willblake2 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 27, 2009, at 12:22:21 PM, "Joseph >> Maurer" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thursday 26 March 2009 10:59 PM Markhsmit writes to all: >>>> >>>>> Free will, which is another name for Quality, provides us with the >>>>> will to believe. We are free to believe in God, in Evolution, in >>>>> Happiness.. We are free to believe that scientific positivism is >>>>> the only reality, or one of many. Quality arrises in us through >>>>> Intent. Sometimes this Intent makes it as far as >>>>> our intellectual mind. We consider choices, and make them. Every >>>>> choice shuts down the alternative (you can't gain something without >>>>> losing something), but the choices thereafter are infinite. We take >>>>> the left fork in the path of an ever forking road. That free will >>>>> is Quality's expression. That free will began long before us. >>>>> Sometimes we call it Chance, or Chaos, or the Divine, or Self >>>>> Assembly, or a Selective Process. All Selective Processes are no >>>>> different from our own. They are all free will. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Markhsmit, >>>> >>>> A song to ponder: >>>> >>>> Busted flat in Baton Rouge waiting for a train, >>>> Feeling just as faded as my Jeans! >>>> Bobby thumbed a Diesel down just before it rained. >>>> Took us all the way to New Orleans! >>>> >>>> I took my Harpoon out of my dirty red bandana, >>>> And was playing soft while Bobby sang the Blues! >>>> With those windshield wipers slapping time, >>>> And Bobby¹s hand enclosed in mine, >>>> We sang-up every song that driver knew >>>> >>>> Freedom¹s just another word for nothing left to lose! >>>> Freedom ain¹t worth nothing! But it¹s free! >>>> Feeling Good! Was easy, Lord! when Bobby sang the blues! >>>> Brother that was good enough for me! >>>> Good enough for me, and Bobby McGhee! >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/26/09 10:59 PM, "markhsmit" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Free will, which is another name for >> Quality, provides us with the will to >>>>> believe. We are free to believe in God, in >> Evolution, in Happiness.... We >>>>> are >>>>> free to believe that scientific positivism is the only reality, or one of >>>>> many. Quality arrises in us through >> Intent. Sometimes this Intent makes it >>>>> as far as our intellectual mind. We >> consider choices, and make them. Every >>>>> choice shuts down the alternative (you >> can't gain something without losing >>>>> something), but the choices thereafter are >> infinite. We take the left fork >>>>> in >>>>> the path of an ever forking road. That >> free will is Quality's expression.. >>>>> That free will began long before us. Sometimes we call it Chance, or >>>>> Chaos, >>>>> or the Divine, or Self Assembly, or a Selective Process. All Selective >>>>> Processes are no different from our own. They are all free will. >>>>> >>>>> Willblake2 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:30:14 PM, markhsmit <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> From: markhsmit <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: [MD] Quality and Free Will >>>>> Date: March 19, 2009 9:30:14 PM PDT >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Quality exists. We break it down into subjective patterns to discuss it, >>>>> little boxed systems. We interpret Quality >> through our senses, our dynamic >>>>> interplay with what is. It is this >> subjective patterning that is our true >>>>> free will, we are free to interpret the way things seem. In fact that is >>>>> the >>>>> only free will we have. Whether we turn right or left, feel good or bad, >>>>> makes no difference because we are still >> within our interpretation. However >>>>> that interpretation can change on a dime. >>>>> >>>>> Why does that freedom of interpretation >> exist? Does it exist in everything. >>>>> Does it exist in Quality? How much of it is free? How much do we have >>>>> rational control over? How much does survival control our freedom? >>>>> >>>>> At the interface of what's outside us and >> within is constant communication. >>>>> That communication results in feelings (or emotions, passions). Our >>>>> intellectual brains are extensions of those feelings, nothing more, which >>>>> break them up into a million parts. When I change my mind or become >>>>> temporarily enlightened, it's not because I >> have collected enough facts (how >>>>> many is enough?), it's because it feels >> right. Our free will comes from the >>>>> interface. It is neither within nor >> without, it is that dynamic interplay. >>>>> It is like music which comes from the >> interface of the speaker and the air, >>>>> or the interface of the air and our >> eardrums. Somewhere in between.. Free >>>>> will is no more our actions than the forces >> outside, it comes from somewhere >>>>> in between, and we feel it. It is that >> freewill that creates Quality. Free >>>>> will is Quality. >>>>> >>>>> Willblake2 >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > . > _____________ > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.......... > . > . > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
