On Sunday 29 March 2009 10:15 PM Marhsmit writes: > This is a good place to start. The tool I am using is dialogue. > > Perhaps it is the burden of scientific training that I carry, but I > have trouble with an evolutionary law of order. In physics we learn > that the tendency of everything is towards greater disorder or > increased entropy. If we apply Quality only to life, then there is > an increasing disorder as more species are being formed. If what > MOQ means is order in terms of complexity, then maybe I can > understand, at least for a part of what I experience. > Evolution, in my mind, implies a tendency. Such as the evolution > of gas from liquid when heat is applied. Or the evolution of life > to match the evolution of life (or natural selection). It is this > tendency of Quality that I have difficulty with. That there is > somehow a hierarchy in Quality. I don't believe that I am in denial > of the non-duality of all, and believe consciousness (for lack of a > better word) to be theexpression of all. > What I do have trouble with is the notion that Quality is changing > over time. Perhaps the word evolution is not the correct one to use > in terms of Quality, at least for my understanding. > > I would like to carry MOQ beyond the authors' start, which I believe > is the purpose of this forum. Pirsig has planted a seed. This > concept of evolution requires a bit more work in my mind. > > Thanks
Hi Markhsmit, Dialogue puts the focus of my attention on logic. I make up the rules for my logic? Is love logical? Is hitting a baseball traveling 100 MPH logical? Is getting pregnant logical? Is blinking my eyes logical? Is liking ice cream logical? Are yes/no logical? I have been put in jail. No logic for me in some laws! Socrates does not like logic! He drank the Hemlock and died! Did he abhor mathematics? I don¹t think so. There is something more. Evolution is not logical. Evolution is an illogical order. Freedom is not logical. Something is undefined in dialogue, my experience, my suppositions. Undefined/Defined, DQ/SQ what is logic? Definition! I have been wrong! I have been right! Joe On 3/29/09 10:15 PM, "markhsmit" <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Mar 29, 2009, at 12:54:30 PM, "Joseph Maurer" <[email protected]> wrote: > On Saturday 28 March 2009 9:04 PM Markhsmit writes to Joe: > > Hi Joe, >> >> I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality. >> This would imply to me that new Quality is being formed, Quality >> that did not exist before. Has Quality evolved in the last 5000 >> years? I am seriously asking this because it does not fit with my >> current understanding, which may be erroneously Eastern (like the >> Tao) at this point.. I am rereading Lila which may help me out. My >> conception of harmony is the temporary coalescence of Quality. This >> coalescence and dissipation is ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of >> thing, rather than growth. >> >> Thanks, > > Hi Markhsmit, and All, > > I will ask you a question. What tool are you using to try to understand the > evolution of quality? SOM posits a distinction between body and mind, > between real existence and intentional existence. Evolution of quality is > not understandable using a metaphysics based on a mind/body division. > > MOQ proposes an evolutionary law of order. Each manifestation in evolution > combines DQundefined/SQdefined. The existence of the evolutionary order is > real, not the supposed intentional existence created by a mind to give > reality to an idea of order. An inorganic rock exists in a different > evolutionary order from an organic flower. Time is not creative in > cataloguing change, e,g, give it time. Space does not create dimensions. > > These are my thoughts as I discuss a metaphysics of quality, MOQ. > > Joe > Thanks Joe, > > This is a good place to start. The tool I am using is dialogue. > > Perhaps it is the burden of scientific training that I carry, but I > have trouble with an evolutionary law of order. In physics we learn > that the tendency of everything is towards greater disorder or > increased entropy. If we apply Quality only to life, then there is > an increasing disorder as more species are being formed. If what > MOQ means is order in terms of complexity, then maybe I can > understand, at least for a part of what I experience. > Evolution, in my mind, implies a tendency. Such as the evolution > of gas from liquid when heat is applied. Or the evolution of life > to match the evolution of life (or natural selection). It is this > tendency of Quality that I have difficulty with. That there is > somehow a hierarchy in Quality. I don't believe that I am in denial > of the non-duality of all, and believe consciousness (for lack of a > better word) to be theexpression of all. > What I do have trouble with is the notion that Quality is changing > over time. Perhaps the word evolution is not the correct one to use > in terms of Quality, at least for my understanding. > > I would like to carry MOQ beyond the authors' start, which I believe > is the purpose of this forum. Pirsig has planted a seed. This > concept of evolution requires a bit more work in my mind. > > Thanks > Willblake2 > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
