thankyou platt, your considered response and kind words are gratefully acknowledged.
i am nearly past my angry young man days now, and i have never believed in taking up arms. i don't believe in voting at all really...i will explain my rather vague vision later - it will take a whole post to be honest i am not against private enterprise - i will again explain more later. i do think there is something spiritually out-of-whack with owning land - this is something i feel strongly ....no doubt it is influenced by my respect for indigenous views of reality on the sanctity of nature. the obverse of this point is that there also something glaringly immoral about having to buy land and keep paying for it to have somewhere to live. we all belong on the earth - we were all born onto it. we should not have to pay to stand on it! i think there will always be markets and like all things the freer the better. markets are brilliant! - i do my shopping at them. no middle man = best produce for the best prices. all about quality! the market, when reduced to this tangible, community enhancing regular occasion is an absolute joy and a win-win situation. but when the market is abstracted to become an inviolable platonic form...well this degree of abstraction is the problem in the first place. abstraction separates us from reality which is to say we lose our intuitive connection with quality and get confused... i am interested to hear your views platt because you are consistent in your defense of static quality. although it seems sometimes that you border on the devils advocate (which is good anyway! the devil is god's shadow - they are a team , good cop bad cop!) i respect your steadfastness and, more importantly, the rationale behind it. we have latched a lot of DQ in the last few thousand years - it is mindless to ignore that. in fact my biggest criticism of philosophy and philosophers today is not that they are mired in SOM, rather it is the *ahistoricity that allows them to get mired in SOM*. were it not for this massive historical ignorance we would be free from repeating errors and explanations ad nauseam. all the very best mate gav > Hey Gav, > > Thanks for answering my questions. I agree we should break > up the > incestuous relationship of big government and big > corporations. It > violates the free market. But I don't think every question > should be put > to a public vote. That way lies a mobocracy. Also, there's > more to > private property than land. And, I don't thinking leasing > land (from > whom?) in perpetuity is good idea. Not only does it create > a static > situation but also limits personal freedom. > > But, if you can sell your ideas to enough people, maybe > they will come > to pass. I'm assuming you don't want to force them anyone > at the point > of a gun. > > Best, > Platt > > > > On 21 Feb 2010 at 18:00, gav wrote: > > > hi again, > > > > > > > > > > democracy is a great idea. america (or > australia) > > > doesn't have it - at all. > > > > > > How so? > > > > you and i do not participate in the decision making > process, at all. pepsi or coke is not a choice. > > > > > > > > > > > trial by jury....great idea for a > criminalised > > > existence. how about lore over law? > > > > > > So you favor anarchy? > > > > i favour fair and stable societies, where the rule of > law is gradually replaced by the function of lore - the > activation, through myth and ritual, of the moral energies > within every individual. > > > > in the meantime a condensation and simplification of > law is required. permaculture provides this with its ethical > principles: > > 1. care of the planet > > 2. care of the people > > 3. share surplus resources equitably > > > > any contravention of these principles becomes illegal. > i don't think i need to explain how radical a shift this > would be, as the biggest industries on the planet are the > most deleterious to humanity and the ecosystem (eg weapons, > mining, pharmaceuticals, plastics) > > > > > > > > > > > freedom of speech? - to say what where? the > media is > > > owned by billionaires > > > > > > You can say what you want. That doesn't mean > society owes > > > you a > > > microphone. > > > > you can talk to yourself too: doesn't get you very > far > > again when there is zero actual participation in the > decision making process this freedom becomes hollow. > > > > > > > > > freedom of the press? ha! - read > manufacturing consent > > > by chomsky > > > > > > Chomsky? Thanks for the laugh. > > > > not a great criticism there platt > > > > > > freedom of assembly? - except if you > constitute a > > > threat to national security - ie arbitrarily > withdrawable > > > > > > Not arbitrary. In the U.S. you need a court > order. > > > > not anymore as i understand it. > > > > > > > > > freedom of travel? - less than what is it 5% > of > > > americans travel o/s, so what's the point - > insularity > > > rules. freedom to travel the well worn tourist > trail is not > > > really travel anyway. if you do take to the open > rod you > > > will pretty quickly run into trouble - police or > otherwise. > > > > > > The point is you are free to travel if you want > to. > > > Doesn't mean you > > > have to. > > > > sure. > > > > > > limited government - any government is > illegitimate. > > > > > > Ah yes, an anarchist. > > > > no, a democrat. although you could say that they are > the very similar ideas. you see platt i don't believe > representative democracy is democracy at all. it is an > oligarchical model if anything, and of course the political > and corporate are so incestuously allied - well its no > wonder so many retards are spawned to perpetuate the ongoing > devolution of mankind. > > > > > > > > > > private property - is a crime against the > planet. > > > perpetual leases would be a better idea. > > > > > > Leases from whom? > > > > rather than buying and selling land you can take your > existing property out of the capitalist cycle. this is an > interim measure. these leases have already been issued in > oz. the idea is that the occupant is a custodian of the > land, free to live and care for it for generation upon > generation, but unable to clear it or sell it - takes land > out of the marketplace and helps renew man's kinship with > the soil. > > > > all the best mate > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
