Ian, I see the hope in the enigma, that science is beyond "making sense." It might be a time for a paradigm shift in thinking. There's hints and hope. I love the quantum micro and macro, though. It's all very exciting as scientists become entangled in their own beliefs.
There does seem to be a false dichotomy in the air: objective science OR subjective god. That's why I love and respect the MoQ and Buddhism.. There's a better/middle way. And why I go on about reification/som. Break that habit and you have a whole new and improved game to play. But, as I've read and know first-hand, it is a hard habit to break. imho. Marsha On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > Marsha, > > DMB has his own agenda (and style of ridicule), in particular in this > context defending scientific rationality against anti-intellectual attacks > from the right, and spurious god / religion / theology arguments. There are > millions of people in that debate right now - my lone voice in support of > enlightened rationality will not be missed. > > I'm focussed on making science better (in whatever small ways I can) ... > better understand itself and its relation to the mythos ... so that it > doesn't fall into the idolatrous trap of absolute intellectual superiority > like any two-bit religion. (In doing so, I do risk appearing not to support > the first argument .... but nothing could be further from the truth.) > > If I wrote so dmb could understand me, I think our differences would be > purely tactical - choosing our battlegrounds. > > Standing by for DMB's ridicule. > Ian > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:35 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Geez, someone criticized Hawking in this forum and was soundly ridiculed >> by dmb? I have watched all the Hawking dvd programs available; one more >> to go. Find it important to know where I am pointing my skepticism. - >> It's >> interesting story-telling. Once upon a time there was singularity... >> >> Wallace's book was great! - I can only change myself, which may be the >> best way to assist social change. When in public I _try_ to spread good >> cheer. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >> >>> Agreed. Hawking (media superstar) is part of the problem of current day >>> science, all he can do is deepen the hole it's in. >>> >>> Science will rise to its true position if it winds back 80 years or so. >> The >>> problem with science now is that it is (in its own mind and in public >>> consciousness and media generally) too exalted. Unfortunately, to be >> called >>> scientific is to be praised - hallelujah. Idolatry in action. >>> >>> But - let's try and do something about it - do as we would be done by. >>> Look at the specific scientific error in the big bang stuff (I provided >> 10 >>> or more links) ... and use it as an example to spread awareness of the >>> problem. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Sorry. I meant science. It will take much more than >>>> Hawking hawking its theories to resurrect science to >>>> an exalted position. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:55 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>> >>>>> The Wallace book, I've heard of, but ... >>>>> >>>>> Resurrect "it" - what's "it" ? >>>>> Whose comments on what programme ? >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Ian >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ian, >>>>>> >>>>>> The Wallace book 'Choosing Reality' was enlightening. It will take >>>>>> much more than a Hawking to resurrect it. It's hard to keep from >>>>>> laughing at his program comments. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If science is right it appears Copernicus was right all along, and >> the >>>>>> Earth >>>>>>> really is the centre of the universe. >>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3589 >>>>>>> (Clue - science is wrong - shock, horror ;-o ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ian >>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>>> Archives: >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
