On Mar 23, 2011, at 6:27 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > I agree with all of that Arlo. > > Your 5 line summary of the MoQ is as good a plain English statement as > I've heard. > > Your conclusion is important ... far from being esoteric or > obscurantist, the fact that MoQish expressions may "problematize" > established common sense expressions is indeed the point.
> It is common > sense as she is known that is wrong. I cannot understand this sentence. :-) I didn't criticize, only ask for clarification. > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Arlo Bensinger <[email protected]> wrote: >> [John] >> I agree Arlo. But all the weight of the endeavor falls upon "when >> articulated". And when I articulate, I'm trying to be understood, in plain >> terms of common understanding. ... So what is it that we all experience, and >> even describe to one another as a "quality experience". By this, we mean a >> "good" experience. >> >> [Arlo] >> I know what you *mean*, but by framing it this way you are certainly *not* >> helping the person you are talking to understand why a MOQ is a >> revolutionary, and better, way to think about the cosmos. >> >> I don't know why for you its not "plain english" to simply say something >> like, "Our western approach has been historically based on a subject-object >> metaphysics, and our language reveals that. Within a MOQ, this worldview is >> reversed, so that Quality precedes subjects and objects, it is not something >> 'objective' nor is it something 'subjective'. A MOQ says that Quality *is* >> experience, so a phrase like "quality experience" is not only unnecessarily >> redundant, but mistakenly adheres to the subject-object view that "quality" >> is an adjective that can be applied to certain 'things'." >> >> How would something like this not be "plain english"? How is something like >> this "esoteric" or cryptic or evidencing a "secret language"? >> >> Of course, I also refuse to use phrases like "free gift" and when people use >> it I ask them if they normal charge people for their gifts. And a few >> seasons back while watching a football game with a friend we heard the >> announcer say something about the runner's "forward progress". I made a >> comment about that ("is there any other kind?"), and my friend to this day >> says he can't hear that phrase without thinking how wrong it is. >> >> Sometimes the best thing we can do for people is "problematize" their >> "common understanding"... >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
