Who me ? ;-) Ian
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:17 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, your wording is plain enough, and of course I agree, but I do worry > sometimes, though, about the tyrannical German male who writes Orwellian > posts detailing someone's else's thought crimes. > > > > On Mar 23, 2011, at 7:12 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > >> Marsha, >> >> Stuff that people typically call "common sense" is in fact culturally >> conditioned (static) socio-intellectual patterns - reflected in the >> SOM language we use to refer to them. Common sense is wrong. Reality >> is the quality that precedes those patterns - but everyday language >> based on common sense doesn't reflect this. >> >> Any more and I just refer you back to Arlo's wording. >> Ian >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> >>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 6:27 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >>> >>>> I agree with all of that Arlo. >>>> >>>> Your 5 line summary of the MoQ is as good a plain English statement as >>>> I've heard. >>>> >>>> Your conclusion is important ... far from being esoteric or >>>> obscurantist, the fact that MoQish expressions may "problematize" >>>> established common sense expressions is indeed the point. >>> >>> >>> >>>> It is commonsense as she is known that is wrong. >>> >>> >>> I cannot understand the this sentence. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Arlo Bensinger <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> [John] >>>>> I agree Arlo. But all the weight of the endeavor falls upon "when >>>>> articulated". And when I articulate, I'm trying to be understood, in >>>>> plain >>>>> terms of common understanding. ... So what is it that we all experience, >>>>> and >>>>> even describe to one another as a "quality experience". By this, we mean >>>>> a >>>>> "good" experience. >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> I know what you *mean*, but by framing it this way you are certainly *not* >>>>> helping the person you are talking to understand why a MOQ is a >>>>> revolutionary, and better, way to think about the cosmos. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know why for you its not "plain english" to simply say something >>>>> like, "Our western approach has been historically based on a >>>>> subject-object >>>>> metaphysics, and our language reveals that. Within a MOQ, this worldview >>>>> is >>>>> reversed, so that Quality precedes subjects and objects, it is not >>>>> something >>>>> 'objective' nor is it something 'subjective'. A MOQ says that Quality *is* >>>>> experience, so a phrase like "quality experience" is not only >>>>> unnecessarily >>>>> redundant, but mistakenly adheres to the subject-object view that >>>>> "quality" >>>>> is an adjective that can be applied to certain 'things'." >>>>> >>>>> How would something like this not be "plain english"? How is something >>>>> like >>>>> this "esoteric" or cryptic or evidencing a "secret language"? >>>>> >>>>> Of course, I also refuse to use phrases like "free gift" and when people >>>>> use >>>>> it I ask them if they normal charge people for their gifts. And a few >>>>> seasons back while watching a football game with a friend we heard the >>>>> announcer say something about the runner's "forward progress". I made a >>>>> comment about that ("is there any other kind?"), and my friend to this day >>>>> says he can't hear that phrase without thinking how wrong it is. >>>>> >>>>> Sometimes the best thing we can do for people is "problematize" their >>>>> "common understanding"... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
