Marsha,

Stuff that people typically call "common sense" is in fact culturally
conditioned (static) socio-intellectual patterns - reflected in the
SOM language we use to refer to them. Common sense is wrong. Reality
is the quality that precedes those patterns - but everyday language
based on common sense doesn't reflect this.

Any more and I just refer you back to Arlo's wording.
Ian

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Ian,
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2011, at 6:27 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>
>> I agree with all of that Arlo.
>>
>> Your 5 line summary of the MoQ is as good a plain English statement as
>> I've heard.
>>
>> Your conclusion is important ... far from being esoteric or
>> obscurantist, the fact that MoQish expressions may "problematize"
>> established common sense expressions is indeed the point.
>
>
>
>> It is commonsense as she is known that is wrong.
>
>
> I cannot understand the this sentence.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Arlo Bensinger <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> [John]
>>> I agree Arlo.  But all the weight of the endeavor falls upon "when
>>> articulated".  And when I articulate, I'm trying to be understood, in plain
>>> terms of common understanding. ... So what is it that we all experience, and
>>> even describe to one another as a "quality experience".  By this, we mean a
>>> "good" experience.
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> I know what you *mean*, but by framing it this way you are certainly *not*
>>> helping the person you are talking to understand why a MOQ is a
>>> revolutionary, and better, way to think about the cosmos.
>>>
>>> I don't know why for you its not "plain english" to simply say something
>>> like, "Our western approach has been historically based on a subject-object
>>> metaphysics, and our language reveals that. Within a MOQ, this worldview is
>>> reversed, so that Quality precedes subjects and objects, it is not something
>>> 'objective' nor is it something 'subjective'. A MOQ says that Quality *is*
>>> experience, so a phrase like "quality experience" is not only unnecessarily
>>> redundant, but mistakenly adheres to the subject-object view that "quality"
>>> is an adjective that can be applied to certain 'things'."
>>>
>>> How would something like this not be "plain english"? How is something like
>>> this "esoteric" or cryptic or evidencing a "secret language"?
>>>
>>> Of course, I also refuse to use phrases like "free gift" and when people use
>>> it I ask them if they normal charge people for their gifts. And a few
>>> seasons back while watching a football game with a friend we heard the
>>> announcer say something about the runner's "forward progress". I made a
>>> comment about that ("is there any other kind?"), and my friend to this day
>>> says he can't hear that phrase without thinking how wrong it is.
>>>
>>> Sometimes the best thing we can do for people is "problematize" their
>>> "common understanding"...
>>>
>>>
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