Thanks, your wording is plain enough, and of course I agree, but I do worry sometimes, though, about the tyrannical German male who writes Orwellian posts detailing someone's else's thought crimes.
On Mar 23, 2011, at 7:12 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > Marsha, > > Stuff that people typically call "common sense" is in fact culturally > conditioned (static) socio-intellectual patterns - reflected in the > SOM language we use to refer to them. Common sense is wrong. Reality > is the quality that precedes those patterns - but everyday language > based on common sense doesn't reflect this. > > Any more and I just refer you back to Arlo's wording. > Ian > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Ian, >> >> >> On Mar 23, 2011, at 6:27 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >> >>> I agree with all of that Arlo. >>> >>> Your 5 line summary of the MoQ is as good a plain English statement as >>> I've heard. >>> >>> Your conclusion is important ... far from being esoteric or >>> obscurantist, the fact that MoQish expressions may "problematize" >>> established common sense expressions is indeed the point. >> >> >> >>> It is commonsense as she is known that is wrong. >> >> >> I cannot understand the this sentence. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Arlo Bensinger <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> [John] >>>> I agree Arlo. But all the weight of the endeavor falls upon "when >>>> articulated". And when I articulate, I'm trying to be understood, in plain >>>> terms of common understanding. ... So what is it that we all experience, >>>> and >>>> even describe to one another as a "quality experience". By this, we mean a >>>> "good" experience. >>>> >>>> [Arlo] >>>> I know what you *mean*, but by framing it this way you are certainly *not* >>>> helping the person you are talking to understand why a MOQ is a >>>> revolutionary, and better, way to think about the cosmos. >>>> >>>> I don't know why for you its not "plain english" to simply say something >>>> like, "Our western approach has been historically based on a subject-object >>>> metaphysics, and our language reveals that. Within a MOQ, this worldview is >>>> reversed, so that Quality precedes subjects and objects, it is not >>>> something >>>> 'objective' nor is it something 'subjective'. A MOQ says that Quality *is* >>>> experience, so a phrase like "quality experience" is not only unnecessarily >>>> redundant, but mistakenly adheres to the subject-object view that "quality" >>>> is an adjective that can be applied to certain 'things'." >>>> >>>> How would something like this not be "plain english"? How is something like >>>> this "esoteric" or cryptic or evidencing a "secret language"? >>>> >>>> Of course, I also refuse to use phrases like "free gift" and when people >>>> use >>>> it I ask them if they normal charge people for their gifts. And a few >>>> seasons back while watching a football game with a friend we heard the >>>> announcer say something about the runner's "forward progress". I made a >>>> comment about that ("is there any other kind?"), and my friend to this day >>>> says he can't hear that phrase without thinking how wrong it is. >>>> >>>> Sometimes the best thing we can do for people is "problematize" their >>>> "common understanding"... >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
