Oh, by the way, Steve, one more point;
You said to me:
And then, as if you were teaching me a lesson, you quote this to me "In Zen,
there is reference to "big self" and "small" self. Small self is the patterns.
Big self is Dynamic Quality." Now isn't that exactly what I just said???
dmb says now:
I dished up the quote to "teach you a lesson" about a completely different
point, my main point, which is one you apparently missed. Again. I dished the
quote up in the context of explaining how your use of the word "independent"
conflates two different senses of the word. The lesson wasn't about the MOQ's
big self and small self. It was about the difference between SOM's self and the
MOQ's self. Huge difference. It seems pretty obvious to me, but I'll repeat
that point with some added emphasis.
...When I say "DEPENDENT self", it does NOT mean this self is unfree or that it
is a slave. It means just means that this self is NOT discontinuous with the
rest of reality. It's not made of a different kind of substance or a
metaphysical entity [AS IN THE CARTESIAN MODEL OR SOME]. Instead, this self is
DEPENDENT in the sense that it exists in relation to the evolutionary moral
framework of the MOQ. Mind and matter are not opposed ontological categories
[AS IN SOM], they are names for the levels of evolution. As Pirsig puts it,
they have a matter-of-fact evolutionary relationship, which is to say mind
DEPENDS upon the social, biological and inorganic patterns from which it
evolved. These patterns contain the MOQ's DEPENDENT self and that is the self
about whom we are asking questions.[NOT THE CARTESIAN SELF] That's the "one"
whose will is both free and determined to some extent. That is the "one" who is
free to follow DQ to some extent and the "one" who is controlled static p
atterns to some extent, as in the Pirsig quote you like so well.
"the MOQ...denies any existence of a "self" that is INDEPENDENT of inorganic,
biological, social or intellectual patterns. There is no "self" that contains
these patterns. These patterns contain the self. This denial agrees with both
religious mysticism and scientific knowledge. In Zen, there is reference to
"big self" and "small" self. Small self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic
Quality." (Annotn. 29)
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