Steve: If the individual is a figure of speech, then talking about the individual "making choices" is a figure of speech about a figure of speech. At no point does it begin to make any MOQ sense to say that the individual possesses or does not possess "free will." We literally are our value choices. Quality has Lila. The question in the MOQ is not about whether the individual possesses free will but whether values themselves are free. Pirsig's answer is that DQ is the free sort. SQ is the non-free sort. Talking about a person choosing one thing or another has no metaphysical reality in the MOQ. It is just a figure of speech.
Ron: Everything is "just" a figure of speech Steve, The point remains that you maintain that it is meaningless to discuss "free will" in the MoQ, when, everything in the MoQ is a figure of speech(what else could it be). The topic then remains about the "meaning" of the figure of speech called "free will" of which Pirsig addresses: "But the MOQ can argue that free will exists at all levels with increasing freedom to make choices as one ascends the levels." which is all Dave is saying . He also says this about the value of talking about "the individual": "it is impossible to get rid of them. There is really no need to. Like 'substance' they can be used as long as it is remembered that they are terms for collections of patterns and not some independent primary reality of their own". (LILA, p158)" One then has to ask exactly what you mean when you require that these figures of speech have a "metaphysical reality" because when we are talking about meaning in the MoQ, It seems that we are definitly NOT talking about any sort of "metaphysical reality" we are talking about the usefulness of concepts, the values of certain types of values. ......... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
