Hi David I think you misread me, price/value is as SQ/DQ. There is a static side of economics, and a dynamic side.
10 nov 2012 kl. 20.13 skrev david buchanan: > > Marsha said to Andre: > ...And in his recent post, dmb didn't make any point at all! Andre, who do > you and dmb think you're kidding? There was no "The point dmb and Pirsig are > making..." Dmb seems to be reluctant to make a point. > > dmb says: > Apparently, Marsha, you failed to see the point. It was a simple point. It > was clearly stated in just a couple sentences but also supported by several > paragraphs of textual evidence. Let me spell it because Jan's and Mark's > responses were almost as irrelevant as your response. > > Jan Anders Andersson said, "Economics is not about values" and "Economics is > a way to AVOID values". My point was to dispute that claim. "According to the > MOQ, fame and fortune are social level values," I said. "According to the > MOQ, our recent history is a clash of values, namely social level values as > opposed to intellectual values". > > See? Jan says "economics is not about values" and I showed why that's wrong. > Along with fame, Pirsig says, economics is a force that gives "society its > shape and meaning". (Lila 258) Economic IS about values, according to Pirsig. > More specifically, it is a central generator of social values. This was the > point and that point was supported by textual evidence. > > I think it's obvious that Jan's assertion has been totally defeated. His > response was totally irrelevant to the point. It's also obvious that you have > no idea what's going on, Marsha. > > This depends of how we define the word Economics. RMP's definition in that sentence is not exact like the definiton I used. I am sorry about the confusion my words caused here. In this pure intellectual forum, a common standard regarding letters, words and concepts, is very useful and practical. Economics meant from the beginning, the management of a house's resources, resource management. Resources are experienced value, static or dynamic. Management is intellectual activity to control a process, in any of the four levels. The intellectual activity to maintain resources is depending on the possibility to make choices between alternatives. To be able to compare the alternatives, a common denominator is needed and that is mostly price, in money terms or measureable numbers. Management with the purpose to maximize the monetary sum of processes chooses the alternative that gives the highest yield. Those who can show the biggest number of money on their own bank account is regarded as the most succesful, they gain the highest grade of celebrity. The word enough is very uncommon in these circles. -- At the physical level there is some kind of time management strategy behind every kind of material. That is the reason why we can see different kind of materia, like protons, electrons, atomic and molecular structures. They are different by their different ways of managing their energy by time. At the biological level we have different species with their special management system, mostly in their RNA and DNA molecules. The genetic code have achieved a succesful strategy through the evolution and "know" how to react to different kind of external stimulus and threats. This external affection has to be evalued by the maintaining structure to act in a way that corresponds to the inherited strategy. Changes in the environmental conditions for survival and competitive success sometimes need new mutated life-forms to solve the situation. Mutations and the natural selection to find the fittest is the general cause for evolution. At the social level, the strategy for sucessful maintenance of upcoming situations is preserved in social codes. How to do. A succesful culture has a satisfying number of tools for handling any known situation. Unknown situations might evoke a critical situation which has to be solved by social intelligence, personal phantasy and cooperative creativity. I think that there is an interesting point to find where the intellectual level comes in, what was the very first concepts used? For exampel if two prehuman beings had a conflict about something eatable. As long as they act without concepts or words, by force and hierarchical status, but instinctively it is pure social strategy. From the moment where simple concepts are involved, like ‘yes’, ‘no’, ‘mine’, the intellectual level is involved in how to manage the situation. Motorcycle maintenance is very physical. Gasoline and rubber comes from the biological level but it is now dead matter. To make a motorcycle work it has to be properly constructed. Every part has to have a suitable form, size and material structure to fit to the other parts and to let the combustion work and give the power needed in the engine for example. A good motorcycle has good proportions, it is well balanced. -- This thread started out with the single word Bravo! Obama won the election. The US will have a democratic president for four more years. The majority of the voters think that the Democrats have a good strategy for maintaining the country, not only in economic terms. Good working species have senses for administrating the information it get from outside, it has a well working system to read and understand what it experiences. Heat, cold, threats and possibilities. A national or corporative economic strategy is far from the perfection of biologic species. Corporative and national economic managements are dealing with price as the measuring system for the values. Everybody knows that there is no such thing as a correct price. Stock markets for example are needed just because the price on stocks are always wrong. That is the basic reason why they rise and fall. A national economic strategy will never learn how to compare and evaluate the true values behind every duty and commodity in circulation. Those who try to manage the nation is isolated from the reality therefore because the management must use calculations and statistics based on these wrong prices. The numeric price is just about half of the reality behind business. Customers doesn't buy because something is cheap, they buy because they think the duty or commodity they get has a higher value than the price. National statistics will never grip this higher value because it is impossible to measure. But we know that it is there. These values are the reality. Not the price. Therefore: Economics without value is nothing. Still, most people, celebrities, paparazzi's and most economists, believe in the numbers. That is why they believe in QE as a way to stimulate the economy. "If people have more money they will buy more which creates more jobs". Nothing could be more fatal, if people get more money the relative value of money will decrease and the customers will be ready to pay a higher price for the same goods. The customers part of the value will decrease and weaken the power to consume. The right thing to do for a sound government is to consider what kind of possibiliies are there to increase the buyers preferences, customer value and taste for quality products that need more labour force which in the end will create more jobs and skill? Because then, with a higher customer value level, there will be much more value to share with the seller, prices go up, profits will rise and so on. Peace, love and understanding. Optimism and better opportunities for all citizens will lower the fear for getting poor, the need to get unneccesary rich (economic fat) and lonely. There are already corporations that understand this. Like Apple, that concentrate on making fantastic products, while other companies concentrate their effort on competing with inferior products and with low prices. I'd like to recommend a book called ‘Betterness’ by Umair Haque in that matter: http://www.amazon.com/Betterness-Economics-Humans-Kindle-ebook/dp/B006K5K5GI Jan Anders > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
